Vatican Newspaper Says Harry Potter Film Champions Values

....
And, he said, the saga championed values that Christians and non-Christians share and provided opportunities for Christian parents to talk to their children about how those values are presented in a special way in the Bible.

Potter's archenemy, Lord Voldemort, "does not represent Satan, as it would be easy to think, but is a man who has made bad choices in his life," Carriero said.

Voldemort has chosen not to love others and sees himself as the center of the universe, he said.

Carriero said Voldemort is like many modern men and women who think they can do without God and without others, they don't believe in heaven, and yet they are the most frightened of dying....

:thumbsup:

Finally! I've seen so many Christians damn Harry Potter for the witchcraft that it's nice to know that there are some sensible people out there that recognize the values in the books.

By the way, the final movie was AMAZING! Lots of heart-wrenching scenes.

Not that I am putting down Harry Potter or the film in any way. . . but to quote somebody in ‘the Vatican newspaper’ is no more the ‘response’ of the Catholic Church than to have somebody quote Father X from St. Whoosis in the New York Times. The view of the person who happens to have submitted an article for the newspaper which operates from the Vatican is a personal opinion of that person only unless otherwise specifically stated.

Unfortunately, a lot of people hear the words “Vatican newspaper” and assume that every article therein has been submitted by or personally approved by the Pope and is to be binding on all Catholics. Not true. In fact, some of the articles are pretty far out there. “The Vatican says Space Aliens Exist!” “The Pope issues NEW COMMANDMENTS” etc. garbage.

Perhaps a better title would be something like “Mr/Fr. X in an article recently printed in the Vatican newspaper says”. . .

Oh, and I’m not saying this article is garbage either. In fact it’s probably fairly accurate so far as it goes; certainly it’s a reasonable point of view. . .but it isn’t necessarily the view of every Catholic, every critic, or something that we’re expected to believe MUST BE 100% TRUE because it’s in the Vatican newspaper.

You have some points. However a vatican paper will not print “satin inspired art a must see”

i think this posting is more to show some CAF folk that hp =/= evil.

[quote="Tantum_ergo, post:4, topic:248686"]
Not that I am putting down Harry Potter or the film in any way. . . but to quote somebody in 'the Vatican newspaper' is no more the 'response' of the Catholic Church than to have somebody quote Father X from St. Whoosis in the New York Times. The view of the person who happens to have submitted an article for the newspaper which operates from the Vatican is a personal opinion of that person only unless otherwise specifically stated.

Unfortunately, a lot of people hear the words "Vatican newspaper" and assume that every article therein has been submitted by or personally approved by the Pope and is to be binding on all Catholics. Not true. In fact, some of the articles are pretty far out there. "The Vatican says Space Aliens Exist!" "The Pope issues NEW COMMANDMENTS" etc. garbage.

Perhaps a better title would be something like "Mr/Fr. X in an article recently printed in the Vatican newspaper says". . .

Oh, and I'm not saying this article is garbage either. In fact it's probably fairly accurate so far as it goes; certainly it's a reasonable point of view. . .but it isn't necessarily the view of every Catholic, every critic, or something that we're expected to believe MUST BE 100% TRUE because it's in the Vatican newspaper.

[/quote]

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Well said!! And you know I'm a LOTR HP fan.:)

Well, it’s better than the title ‘Pope opposes Harry Potter’.:rolleyes:

[quote="Ahimsa, post:7, topic:248686"]
Well, it's better than the title 'Pope opposes Harry Potter'.:rolleyes:

[/quote]

True True :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[quote="Tantum_ergo, post:4, topic:248686"]
Not that I am putting down Harry Potter or the film in any way. . . but to quote somebody in 'the Vatican newspaper' is no more the 'response' of the Catholic Church than to have somebody quote Father X from St. Whoosis in the New York Times. The view of the person who happens to have submitted an article for the newspaper which operates from the Vatican is a personal opinion of that person only unless otherwise specifically stated.

Unfortunately, a lot of people hear the words "Vatican newspaper" and assume that every article therein has been submitted by or personally approved by the Pope and is to be binding on all Catholics. Not true. In fact, some of the articles are pretty far out there. "The Vatican says Space Aliens Exist!" "The Pope issues NEW COMMANDMENTS" etc. garbage.

Perhaps a better title would be something like "Mr/Fr. X in an article recently printed in the Vatican newspaper says". . .

Oh, and I'm not saying this article is garbage either. In fact it's probably fairly accurate so far as it goes; certainly it's a reasonable point of view. . .but it isn't necessarily the view of every Catholic, every critic, or something that we're expected to believe MUST BE 100% TRUE because it's in the Vatican newspaper.

[/quote]

True enough. I'm just happy the article headline says "Vatican Newspaper Says..." instead of "Vatican Says...". :)

Thankfully, the Vatican newspaper is not part of the Magisterium.

[quote="michaelnrdx, post:3, topic:248686"]
Finally! I've seen so many Christians damn Harry Potter for the witchcraft that it's nice to know that there are some sensible people out there that recognize the values in the books.

By the way, the final movie was AMAZING! Lots of heart-wrenching scenes.

[/quote]

One of the Best. Movie. Endings. Ever. I Mean "Of All Time" Ever. (Unlike the pick-your-own multiple endings of LOTR.)

[quote="havana1, post:11, topic:248686"]
One of the Best. Movie. Endings. Ever. I Mean "Of All Time" Ever. (Unlike the pick-your-own multiple endings of LOTR.)

[/quote]

I admit it - I cried!

[quote="Catholic90, post:12, topic:248686"]
I admit it - I cried!

[/quote]

Glad I am not alone:)

Val

uh...... :confused:
i cant believe what I am hearing from you some of you didnt the chief Exorcist at the vatican Warn AGAINST harry potter... something isnt adding up here

[quote="KaneKatholic, post:14, topic:248686"]
uh...... :confused:
i cant believe what I am hearing from you some of you didnt the chief Exorcist at the vatican Warn AGAINST harry potter... something isnt adding up here

[/quote]

Source please.

Oh dear…

[quote="KaneKatholic, post:14, topic:248686"]
uh...... :confused:
i cant believe what I am hearing from you some of you didnt the chief Exorcist at the vatican Warn AGAINST harry potter... something isnt adding up here

[/quote]

Here we go again.....:rolleyes:

What is your source for this?

[quote="Ahimsa, post:1, topic:248686"]

[/quote]

TLDM note: The danger of Harry Potter books has been confirmed by another exorcist, other than Fr. Gabriele Amorth. An American exorcist told us about a young girl he exorcised who was into Harry Potter and Pokemon. He has exorcised many children who have become possessed through involvement in these. A priest told this exorcist that he read Harry Potter and found nothing wrong with it. The exorcist rebuked this ignorant priest, "But you guys don't do exorcisms!"

The America Needs Fatima Blog reported on July 18, 2011:

“The positive review of the latest Harry Potter film in L’Osservatore Romano is symptomatic of serious problems in the condition of many modern Catholics,” Michael D. O’Brien, author of “Harry Potter and the Paganization of Culture,” told LifeSiteNews last week.*

In its review, the Vatican newspaper had called the film an “epic,” a “saga of unequalled planetary success,” and “another blockbuster.”

While prior to becoming pope, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger had expressed concern over the Potter books, the unsigned review in the Vatican newspaper says of the new film: “As for the content, evil is never presented as fascinating or attractive in the saga, but the values of friendship and of sacrifice are highlighted.”

O’Brien argues that the Vatican newspaper’s review springs from a “habit of making a split between faith and culture, and most strangely by straining to praise fundamentally disordered cultural material.”*

The L’Osservatore Romano review, said O’Brien, begs the questions “Who is behind the editorial policies at the Vatican’s newspaper? Why would they posit as good a tale about a violent, morally confused sorcerer as a Christ-figure? Why, moreover, have they simply ignored Pope Benedict’s critical insight into the Potter series?”

In two letters first translated and*published online*by LifeSiteNews.com, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote to a German writer of a book critically analyzing the Potter series. “It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly,” he wrote.

Cardinal Ratzinger’s was not the only Vatican voice to express grave concern over Potter.* The Vatican’s chief exorcist, Rev. Gabriele Amorth, has repeatedly condemned the Harry Potter novels.* In 2006 he said, “You start off with Harry Potter, who comes across as a likeable wizard, but you end up with the Devil … By reading Harry Potter a young child will be drawn into magic and from there it is a simple step to Satanism and the Devil.”

O’Brien, regarded around the world as an expert on children’s fantasy literature, explained the tendency for confusion. “All too often, when cultural material arrives in intense pleasure-inducing forms, and contains some positive ‘values’ mixed with highly toxic messages in its role modeling and its anti-values, we are easily seduced. To believe that the Potter message is about fighting evil is superficial. On practically every page of the series, and in its spin-off films, evil is presented as ‘bad’, and yet the evil means by which the evil is resisted are presented as good.”

O’Brien warns, “As charming as Harry may be (and in the films he is much more charming due to the persona of the actor who plays the role), he is a type or metaphor of Antichrist, mutating Christian symbols and then absorbing them into a more dangerous worldview — moral relativism saturated in the symbology of evil and various manifestations of the occult.”

“In the novels,” says O’Brien. “Harry is called ‘the Chosen One.’ He chooses to rise from the dead. He defeats evil with the instruments and gnostic powers of sorcery, wielding the ultimate instrument with which he saves the world because he has become ‘Master over Death.’ At the climax of the seven-volume Potter epic, having saved the world from evil, the resurrected Harry is treated with reverent awe, various characters pressing forward to touch him, ‘their leader and symbol, their saviour and their guide.’”

To contact:

Vatican newspaper*
Editorial office*
Telephone: + 39 06 698 83461/84442*
Fax: + 39 06 698 83675*
e-mail:*segretaria@ossrom.va

Email this page to a friend.

Mr. O'Brien seems to have been discredited. Here is a critique of Mr. O'Brien:

Originally Posted by DGDDavidson forums.catholic.com/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif

*This weird thing about dragons is the pet idea of Michael O'Brien, and it always amazes me that so many Catholics have paid attention to it. He contradicts himself in his book, misunderstands some of the fantasy works he attempts to analyze, and even abuses Christian theology. His overview of dragon imagery in world mythology is selective, inadequate, and inaccurate. The book is simply terrible, and yet I keep finding people who take it seriously.

O'Brien's favorite trick is tossing around certain inexplicable words to lead you by the nose. He compares fantasy works with "traditional" fairy tales, but never explains what he means by "traditional." Dungeons and Dragons is a "cult," but he never explains why he calls it that. Dragons are positive symbols in China because of "dualistic eastern religions," but he doesn't explain why dualism would lead to positive dragon symbols. Nor does he explain why serpents are consistently negative in Zoroastrianism, which is unquestionably dualistic. He mentions Tiamat from the Enuma Elish* as a sort of dragon and seems to think that helps his case, but he's apparently unaware that Tiamat's vanquisher, Marduk, has serpents and dragons among his sacred symbols. He claims J. R. R. Tolkien is on his side in all this, but he is apparently unaware of Tolkien's Farmer Giles of Ham, which contains a tamed dragon, the very thing O'Brien claims will drag children into neo-paganism.

When attacking the work of Madeline L'Engle, he criticizes her for describing cherubim as dragon-like, apparently unaware that in ancient iconography, cherubim are winged sphinxes. He is also apparently unaware that seraphim are winged serpents with legs--that's a positive use of snake imagery right out of the Bible. He also gives no account, that I remember, of John 3.14 or of the good dragon, representing Mordecai, who battles the evil dragon in the additions to Esther. Scripture does not contain a univocal use of serpent imagery, so there can be no basis for a Christian argument that snakes in fiction must always represent only one thing, all the time, unless we're prepared to condemn the Bible as a confused neo-pagan work.

He trips over his theology on a few occasions. In an attempt to discuss beauty as a property of being and the symbolic use of beauty in fairy stories, he gets confused and ends up--I hope by accident--saying pretty people are inherently better than ugly people. Even though he praises fairy tales for showing evildoers as ugly and do-gooders as beautiful, he turns around in one of his essays on Harry Potter and attacks J. K. Rowling for doing the very same thing.

During that aforementioned criticism of L'Engle, he criticizes her for (correctly) depicting evil as non-being, even though he admits she's basically right on that point. But though O'Brien himself (correctly) understands demons as beings as wholly dedicated to evil as beings can be, and (correctly) criticizes L'Engle for a universalist bent, he (incorrectly, very incorrectly!) says some living human beings are the same way, "completely ruled by evil." Sometimes he sounds more like a Lutheran or Calvinist than a Catholic.

He also excuses George MacDonald for his universalism. In Lilith, MacDonald depicts even Satan being saved, and O'Brien gives this a pass, but for some reason, that sort of thing is absolutely condemnable when Madeline L'Engle does it. He also praises MacDonald for depicting Lilith being converted back to good, even though she's a demonic figure, though he condemns the depiction of the conversion of other demonic figures. The heroic characters in Lilith also use magic, just as Lilith does--yet when discussing Harry Potter and other fantasy works, he condemns books where both heroes and villains employ magic. For some reason, the use of magic by both good and evil is something O'Brien is willing to excuse in works by the authors he favors. O'Brien simply can't be consistent in his criticism, so how can anyone seriously expect fantasists to use ideas like O'Brien's as a moral guide for writing their work?

O'Brien may be a fine novelist. I know from experience he's a competent painter. But in the realms of folklore or literary criticism the man is a sophomore, the Richard Dawkins of Catholic literary moral criticism, making facile arguments based on some master key to interpreting stories that he claims to have discovered, and huffily dismissing anyone who disagrees with him as "illiterate." I do not understand why anyone treats A Landscape with Dragons or O'Brien's essays on this subject as anything other than an embarrassment.

This was discussed ad nauseum in this thread: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=579679&highlight=o%27brien&page=8

and this thread forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=8117895#post8117895

[quote="Catholic90, post:19, topic:248686"]
Mr. O'Brien seems to have been discredited. Here is a critique of Mr. O'Brien:

This was discussed ad nauseum in this thread: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=579679&highlight=o%27brien&page=8

and this thread forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=8117895#post8117895

[/quote]

Don't list them all. We'll be here all day. :p

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