Vatican spokesman condemns loss of life in flotilla clash

catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-spokesman-condemns-israeli-raid-on-aid-flotilla/

Very sad for the Church to be suckered by the phony peace group.

[quote="asymmetricblog, post:1, topic:200386"]
catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-spokesman-condemns-israeli-raid-on-aid-flotilla/

Very sad for the Church to be suckered by the phony peace group.

[/quote]

What :confused::confused:

The spokesman for the Vatican condemned the loss of innocent lives.

Care to explain why the Pope and the Vatican are ''suckers'' for doing so :confused:

Though I understand Israel's right as a sovereign nation to protect their people, lives should not have been lost in this raid. The people in Gaza are being denied freedoms to live their lives as they should be....and I blame both the Palestinians with Hamas and Israel for this.

When will the good people of that region begin to stand up and say "enough is enough?" Too much injustice on both sides are being done!

I'm surprised by the headline of the Catholic News Agency article. I'm not sure that Fr. Lombardi expressed a condemnation of Israel's action. Here is what he said, in response to a question about the incident.

"This is a very painful fact, especially for the needless loss of lives. The situation is being followed with great attention and concern in the Vatican. As you know, the Holy See has always opposed the use of violence - from whatever side - because it makes it increasingly difficult to find peaceful solutions, which are the only way forward.

The Pope, who will travel to the area of the Middle East in a few days , will not fail to consistently propose a message of peace. "

radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=397167

Honestly, I don't see any condemnation. It seems like a very neutral statement.

That is quite a controversial statement, and I am suspicious of the accuracy of the leaked document. But since it is not scheduled for release until next Monday, I guess we will have to wait til then to see what the document actually says.

I wasn’t surprised by the statement, it seems fairly in keeping with statements made in the past.

Seem like a condemnation to me. I'm sure that the Catholic News Agency knew what it was saying.

[quote="roveau, post:6, topic:200386"]
I wasn't surprised by the statement, it seems fairly in keeping with statements made in the past.

[/quote]

I guess you are right. A year ago, Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, said the Gaza strip increasingly resembled a "concentration camp."
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0900084.htm

Riiight. Just like headlines and posts that shriek: POPE BEST FRIENDS WITH HITLER!!!

No agenda, folks, just move on.

Tell me again about those hundreds of Israeli homicide bombers. Then we can talk.

It is good that the Vatican spokesman condemned this tragic act by Israeli commando's in international waters.

Viva Pope Benedict the 16th !! :D

God bless

Since Israel's military and philosophical policy does not include strapping bombs to young children and pushing them into civilian crowds, I wonder whether 'the Vatican' has ever condemned THOSE acts.

And if so, why do we not hear about it? Or is even the Catholic press too knee-jerk anti-semitic to publish a similar screaming headline about child homicide bombers?

[quote="Sailor_Kenshin, post:11, topic:200386"]
Since Israel's military and philosophical policy does not include strapping bombs to young children and pushing them into civilian crowds, I wonder whether 'the Vatican' has ever condemned THOSE acts.

And if so, why do we not hear about it? Or is even the Catholic press too knee-jerk anti-semitic to publish a similar screaming headline about child homicide bombers?

[/quote]

Condemning Israel's actions is not anti-semitic. Unlike too many of our Administrations, the Church has never grovelled before Israel and never will.

The world is not a good guy / bad guy movie folks. Good people do bad and/or stupid things some times.

Israel says it allows all the humanitarian supplies anybody wants to send through to Gaza. But not directly. It has to go to an Israeli port for thorough inspection first. This is really fairly reasonable given the vast numbers of rockets that Hamas keeps firing into Israel on a routine basis. They don't make rockets from mud bricks. The materials are smuggled in some how. THAT's why there is a blockade. I've heard accounts that the ships contained food, medicine and building supplies. Nobody has yet said what kind of building. That's kind of important since 4 and 6 inch water main pipe are easily made into rockets.....

The Israelis also appear to have made AN attempt to use non-lethal crowd dispersal with paintball guns before reverting to real guns when it appeared their lives were in danger. It was arguably bungled, but not for lack of any attempt to prevent loss of life. The "humanitarian activists" appear (from some accounts) to have been prepared for paint ball guns, wearing padded clothes and face shield and armed with chains and pipes. This is not your usual peace activist!

In the end, this flotilla KNEW it was defying a declared blockade. They prepared themselves to resist non-lethal force from boarders, but seem to have purposely refrained from bringing actual weapons, probably to stay free of contraband upon inspection. To me, it looks like a clever and sophisticated PR manipulation on the part of the flotilla organizers, but one that either over-estimated the level of discipline of the Israeli commandos or cynically didn't care that some of the activists would be killed in a PR victory. I hate to think the latter, but this IS Hamas country, after all....

Israel does a lot of stubborn and cold things to the Palestinian peoples. Tolerating and even encouraging new settlements in the West Bank is, IMO, a far worse violation of the Palestinian peoples rights than this blockade action. But perhaps I don't have all the facts. Anybody have additional info on the Israeli claim that aid is welcome to come to Gaza via Israeli ports?

The way you (R. O.) put that remark seems anti-Semitic in itself. 'Groveling?' A tiny state wanting only to defend itself against worldwide hatred of Jews?

How long do you think you can pretend to the moral high ground if you throw Israel under the bus?

There is a big difference between how Israelis are and how the other side is.

And it is horrifying and wrong to compare the two and find Israel wanting.

desiringgod.org/Blog/1112/

Muslim and Christian Martyrdom
March 5, 2008 | By: John Piper | Category: Commentary
In Monday’s Wall Street Journal, Harvard Law School Professor Alan Dershowitz wrote about some Muslims' love affair with death. It raises the question of how Christian martyrdom is different. He writes:
“We are going to win, because they love life and we love death,” said Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah. He has also said: “[E]ach of us lives his days and nights hoping more than anything to be killed for the sake of Allah.” Shortly after 9/11, Osama bin Laden told a reporter: “We love death. The U.S. loves life. That is the big difference between us.”

Palestinians support suicide bombings
An unnamed Palestinian security official cited in today's Jerusalem Post said, "One of the problems in stopping [suicide bombing] attacks is the strong support for them among the population."

According to a poll conducted among Palestinian adults from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank including East Jerusalem at the end of May by Dr. Nabil Kukali and the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion (PCPO), "a substantial majority (76.1%) support suicidal attacks like that of Netanya [in May], whereas 12.5% oppose, and 11.4% express no opinion."

israelinsider.com/channels/security/articles/sec_0049.htm

In 1969, when Golda Meir, then 71 years old, became prime minister of Israel she said: “We will have peace with the Arabs when they will love their children more than they hate us.”

That day has still not come. Therefore we have witnessed the murder of over 800 Jews and the injuries to 5,500 by Arab killers during the past three years and the slaughter of many more before then.

The Devil's Workshop: How Islamic Homicide Bombers Are Made
Islamic terrorists aren't born. They are quite consciously and deliberately made.

The video below is a glimpse into the rotting swamp of hatred in which homicide bombers are conditioned for murder and suicide.

jbuff.com/c103003.htm

Ignoring the difference and ignoring the problem serves neither the Church nor humanity, and it certainly does not serve the truth.

ginacobb.typepad.com/gina_cobb/2010/01/the-devils-workshop-how-islamic-homicide-bombers-are-made.html

[quote="Sailor_Kenshin, post:14, topic:200386"]

And it is horrifying and wrong to compare the two and find Israel wanting.

[/quote]

Regardless what AICAP, and those who believe that Israel is above criticism and that everything it does is good and right and just, say, Israel is no holier, no more sacred, no more to be bowed before than any other country.

I will always choose the Church before choosing Israel. I will always believe what the Church says over what Israel says.

You hold the opposite? Fine. You've a right to hold that belief, just as I have a right to believe what I think Israel is all about.

We really have to resist the urge to follow the lead of the secular (and anti-Catholic) media of ascribing political motives, or even political focus, to moral pronouncements of the Church.

Is this one taking exception to something done by the Isreali military? Yes. Is it a condemnation of the State of Israel? Not evidently.

The Church cannot take political sides. She is doing her moral duty when she condemns needless loss of life, whether or not it involves people who strap bombs to themselves as blow up others, or people who undertake raids on the high seas.

The Church must always champion the better way St. Paul sets out in 1 Cor 13. She can't let politics, public opinion, or expediency divert her from that task. The political chips must simply be left to fall where they may. And that takes courage.

Blessings,

Gerry

[quote="asymmetricblog, post:1, topic:200386"]
catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-spokesman-condemns-israeli-raid-on-aid-flotilla/

Very sad for the Church to be suckered by the phony peace group.

[/quote]

From the Jerusalem Post
jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177261

The evidence here appears to show that the Commandos were attacked with stun grenades, Bars, Chains, and live weapons fire on their approach.

Loss of life is always tragic, but why is Israel taking all the blame? :confused:

There is this too:
jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177261

You can see the Commandos being attacked first in the videos.

And this:
jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177169

During its searches of the Mavi Marmara on Tuesday, the military also discovered a cache of bulletproof vests and night-vision goggles, as well as gas masks. On Monday morning, at least nine foreign activists were killed during the navy’s takeover of the Mavi Marmara, which was trying to break Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip.

The group of over 50 passengers with possible terror connections have refused to identify themselves and were not carrying passports. Many of them were carrying envelopes packed with thousands of dollars in cash.

The military is working to identify the passengers and is looking into the possibility that some of them have been involved in terror attacks. Some of them are apparently known Islamic extremists.

Now that doesn't sound like humanitarian aid to me..
Did Fr. Lombardi actually take some time to see what was happening before commenting or were these remarks based solely on biased press reports?

Too me it looks like these remarks are based on biased press reports and not on the facts of this horrible incident.

Joe B

[quote="Guyonthestreet, post:2, topic:200386"]
What :confused::confused:

The spokesman for the Vatican condemned the loss of innocent lives.

Care to explain why the Pope and the Vatican are ''suckers'' for doing so :confused:

[/quote]

They are not innocent if they are swinging clubs. Sorry. :cool:

I don't think its a condemnation either. It's an expression of regret.

[quote="jay29, post:18, topic:200386"]
They are not innocent if they are swinging clubs. Sorry. :cool:

[/quote]

Reports did not say that those killed were swinging clubs. Those were identified as Turkish civilians. The club swingers were some of the Hamas folks. So the term innocent civilians still applies absent proof to the contrary.

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