Here Here! (Regarding the underappreciation of Ignatian Spirituality)
Indeed… The practice of yoga by health conscious – or health seeking – westerners has as much to do with an ashram as my preparing my daily spot of tea has to do with a Buddhiist tea ceremony – although they both involve the ritualised brewing, serving, and consumption of tea.
As Sigmund Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just that…a cigar. It does not have some underlying hidden and esoteric meaning.
I know how this is done with sola scriptura foks. Adding context defeats proof-texting.
The applicable Scripture we should look at is how St. Paul addressed the paganism in his day, with his own issue of yoga, which was people buying and eating meat that was previously part of pagan sacrifice, thus “copying Satan’s diet.” He wrote to the Church of Corinth where this was a divisive issue and said:
8 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God.[a]
4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
The caveat he added was:
9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge.
So if we skip gluing Bible verses to our opinions and instead try and find out what the Bible actually says on the subject, we realize that for a Christian who knows there is but one God and worships Him alone, there is nothing to yoga or meat. However, we might need to avoid the appearance of evil for the sake of those who are weaker in the faith, let’s say, we do yoga at a class where this sort of spiritual emphasis exists.
Now I am open if anyone has where the Bible says something otherwise, but we have to realize that whatever is said has to allow for St. Paul’s teaching that once we understand there is but one God that pagan idolatry is empty.
Anybody here do yoga exercises?
Well said pnewton.
And what official Church document is this from, please?
See, if we were talking just about kundalini yoga, I might be inclined to agree with the concern (as it stands I do appreciate Francis’ concern, I think it is well-meant). But kundalini isn’t popular and good luck finding people who actually know what they’re talking about to learn it from.
Absolutely. I don’t doubt for a second that kundalini yoga can be dangerous; even some practitioners say so. But that’s a different type of yoga entirely.
I would think the Holy Father himself is the Vaticans “Chief Exorcist”, no?
Maybe it’s the machismo and glory of the idea of a somewhat rebellious priest who is “chief exorcist”, smoking cigarettes and casting out demons in rainy alleys in Rome…
The Bible refers to satan “roaming the earth”.
I picture satan as an enormous being that can be over the entire earth all at once…
Now, in defense of Fr. Amorth, there is a reality to evil in the world. I personally believe Satan seldom uses the occult as a trap for the faithful. We are far too vulnerable to pride, complacency, lusts and other sins. I recommend Fr. Pacwa’s book Catholics and the New Age. Even if the occult is hardly the only trap. There is also the danger of deism, indifferentism, and now, Jedi religion. We can really get sucked into a very distorted understanding of God.
Neither should we spar at shadows. In my teens, there was a big Satanic scary that all rock music was demonic and words recorded backwards. Others said Proctor and Gamble products lead to demonic influence based on their seal. Yoga has a real connection to Hinduism though. So we have to look at what is real and what is not, while at the same time realizing that an connection is not necessarily a spiritual connection, which is why Paul said he could dine on meat sold out of the back of pagan temples.
I quoted a prayer of St. Francis, knowing what it was. I did not say what it was and what it was not. As a constant proof-texter, who even on this very thread posting nothing but Scripture, with no other comment, you have no right to say what I do is confusing, to myself or others.
So, I will clarify. What Pope Francis did was not sun worship. Greeting the sun is not by necessity sun worship. I hope this clarifies any confusion.
Hear i was emphasizing worshiping idols,Yoga has different form of worship positions, pagan sacrifice to demons as mentioned in the Word of God .Catholic dont believe in sola scriptura but also the Catholic Traditions ,Apostolic teaching.You missing the point!
Especially to my worshipful brother sun, What you mentioned is wrong .
Here your Manipulated the Canticle of Brother Sun and Sister Moon of St. Francis of Assisi as worshiping the sun ,your not truthful ,your trying to argue with out basis . deviating from the current topic of Yoga
Most High, all-powerful, all-good Lord, All praise is Yours, all glory, all honour and all blessings.
To you alone, Most High, do they belong, and no mortal lips are worthy to pronounce Your Name.
Praised be You my Lord with all Your creatures,
especially Sir Brother Sun,
Who is the day through whom You give us light.
And he is beautiful and radiant with great splendour,
Of You Most High, he bears the likeness.
Praised be You, my Lord, through Sister Moon and the stars,
In the heavens you have made them bright, precious and fair.
Praised be You, my Lord, through Brothers Wind and Air,
And fair and stormy, all weather’s moods,
by which You cherish all that You have made.
Praised be You my Lord through Sister Water,
So useful, humble, precious and pure.
Praised be You my Lord through Brother Fire,
through whom You light the night and he is beautiful and playful and robust and strong.
Praised be You my Lord through our Sister,
who sustains and governs us,
producing varied fruits with coloured flowers and herbs.
Praise be You my Lord through those who grant pardon for love of You and bear sickness and trial.
Blessed are those who endure in peace, By You Most High, they will be crowned.
Praised be You, my Lord through Sister Death,
from whom no-one living can escape. Woe to those who die in mortal sin! Blessed are they She finds doing Your Will.
No second death can do them harm. Praise and bless my Lord and give Him thanks,
And serve Him with great humility.
I’d just like to add that, from my own experience with the occult, you really have to want to find people who are genuinely practicing it. Where the real evil stuff is, most of us wouldn’t be able to find those sorts of people (Satanists somewhat excluded). They aren’t about converting people.
Argument by insult. Satan does indeed try to attack us, but where we are weak.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23
Am not insulting any one read my post again Please dont deviate from the topic of Yoga sorry i have to flag you post or stop answering baseless and false statement
Posters have a right to respond to your accusations. Whether those accusations specifically mention yoga or not.
He was mentioning of St. Francis of Assisi worshiping the sun is it rights?,
The post in question, for which I was accused of not being truthful, was a quote. Go figure. Even if yoga has a pose to greet the sun, that is not the same as worship the sun, any more than the personification of the sun (and moon) by St. Francis was sun worship.
In any case, stretching one’s muscles is not sun worship any more than eating the meat of idols is idol worship. Idols are just wood and metal and the sun is an orb of gas undergoing fusion.
Not sure what you were replying to here. I was responding to a post that implied that if someone says the yoga pose that is lying flat on the floor is doing something wrong, then that person is saying that anyone who lies on the floor that way is doing something wrong. The example of laying on the floor was the previous poster’s premise, and so I continued with it.
I meant that it is erroneous to say, “because lying on the floor is not always and everywhere wrong, it cannot ever be wrong.” For example, if you were assuming that particular posture because it is a prayer form to a Hindu god or goddess, it is idol worship and the Israelites could tell you a thing or two about how God feels about that.
I used breathing as an example. Breathing isn’t outlawed because they do it in religious practices we do not agree with. Breathing as an opening to an invitation to a spirit to enter into you and guide you: extremely hazardous!
Likewise, stretching and exercise is great. The concern is that these programs are called “Yoga” because they derive from the physical discipline of a particular form of worshipping Hindu deities. So the question that needs to be discerned in truth is: can Yoga be acceptable? Is the particular form practiced where I am interested in doing it acceptable? What are the risks? Are their alternatives that satisfy my goals without any dubiousness? What does it mean if I am wrong? What does it mean if the other side of the argument is wrong?
Not an easy blanket answer that you can say definitively for every person and every case, though I’m not sure what the harm could be in erring on the side of caution and clarity in who your God is.