I was just joking anyway. But the monks are wonderful.
It started in Talmudic times for the kippah—around the second century. Here’s a pretty good link:
So at the least I was right that depictions of Jesus wearing one are anachronistic.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen that. I’ve only seen him wearing a tallit, which would be appropriate. He’d have covered his head in the Temple.
Men are only required not to wear a hat when they pray. Women are asked the do the opposite.
Why? I’m not sure. I would suspect it goes back to the differences between men and women. When I was Protestant I was taught it’s because a woman’s appearance is her pride so she covers her face as a sign of humility. Whereas, for men, if they are covering their head it’s usually out of pride (because they’re balding or whatever) so they need to remove the hat to humble themselves.
Have no idea the Catholic view on this but I remember seeing this manifest in my life and experiences with people.
BTW, my comment about veils being beautiful seeming to contradict the humility of wearing a veil has been a bit mocked but I always find it odd when someone is doing something that I see as humble while simultaneously doing something that is contrary to humility, IMHO. But perhaps seeing where I’m coming from and what I was traditionally taught about veiling it might make more sense.
I should really study why Catholics cover because I only really know why Protestants do.
For me, I never covered until I converted and felt a very strong call to do so. And I do. I know there’s this idea that it’s not a calling and that God wouldn’t possibly go to women individually and ask them to do it but I believe He wants me to. For a variety of reasons (one which I mentioned in this thread already).
I toyed with wearing mantillas for a long time but honestly they just felt too … standy outy. Like, why am I wearing something that makes me stick out like a sore thumb? No thanks. Not for me. I do not judge women who DO wear it though. I’m sure their heart and devotion is in the right place, it just didn’t work for me and I do have trouble understanding because it is so contrary to my own desire.
It’s not exactly the same thing, but think about some of the rich fabrics of papal vestments or the beauty of many churches. Humility and modesty does not have to mean forsaking beauty. Instead, the beauty reflects the glory of God.
It’s not just the beauty but the obvious setting apart and making one stand out that bothers me.
I can understand that sentiment if you live in a place where it’s very uncommon, but that’s not the case for me or many other women. We are not trying to stand out. Many of us start by wearing a covering that will be inconspicuous for this reason.
This thread makes me glad I had far less of an internet presence/ glimpse into what other people think when I started covering my head at mass. I would have been so full of fear and distraction assuming others were thinking some of these things.
Honestly I think most people think NOTHING in the moment. When I see another women veiling at Mass I just don’t pay attention because I’ve got others things to focus on. I generally only think these things when I’m alone at home and pondering the question of why women veil.
I cover. With a hat. There are people in this thread who think putting a hat on isn’t right either but I don’t really care what they think. It’s between me and God since the practice in and of itself is a personal devotion.
You do you. What everyone else thinks shouldn’t change your personal devotion.
I thought about looking, but I’m not going to go back and read the 350 responses that we’ve been accumulating.
Was anyone actually anti-hat or more anti-hat for themselves when certain anti-veil posters kept saying hats stood out less and veils were …fill in blank with all the veil complaints?
There was a comment (if I am remembering correctly) that insinuated hats were silly or something along those lines. It was probably more a personal commentary (as in, hats aren’t for me). I could be confusing threads though. All I know is there will always be people who will disagree with what we’re doing, even if we do everything exactly right. So it’s best to stay in prayer and just do the best we can with God and stop worrying so much about approval of our fellow Catholics.
So the original issue of this thread is should a woman obey her PP when he insists no veils be worn by those engaging in public ministry at Church…
As the traditional meaning of the practise (as opposed to arbitrary invented meanings by less than well educated practitioners since the time of St Paul) is that it reflects the obedience owed by women to God/Priest/Husband/Father the answer does appear reasonably apparent.
Changing the traditionally opaque veil (covering all hair) to a skimpy see-through lace cap of a few square inches would not seem to get around this tradition or the priest’s request.
Personally I don’t see how such young women see a connection between the ancient Christian practise and balancing a doily on their heads in public. It basically looks like a fancy place-mat for a drink. Seems like the Emporer’s Clothes to me. But what do I know, I am just a geriatric who believes in objective traditions and calling a spade a spade. You be the judge:
An old fashioned lace doily:
I rather agree about that type of covering being something and nothing !
I guess you better count the older women in with wearing doilies, hats, veils and the like on their heads also because covering isn’t just for the young. You’ll find lots of older women choosing to reverence God with this devotional practice also. In my parish, very few young have started wearing headcoverings yet, it is the older women wearing them.
I will say I don’t see too many of those like the two above photos. Mostly mantillas, scarves and hats.
I’m imagining the replies if you had posted girls in tank tops saying “there’s not much to this, is there?..it’s skimpy and see-through”…
While I have never seen lace or diaphanous tank tops (thank God) even in Australia you may appreciate the subtle philosophical principles involved in the following typically Australian moral theologising:
This cover is a placemat!
nothing else! :
Priests often set rules for what can and can’t be worn by those serving at Mass. Altar servers are told what color and type of shoes to wear, they are told what styles/color of pants and shirts to wear or dresses/skirts. And the girls are asked not to wear a hat or veil in nearly all parishes. Most parishes also state acceptable hairdos for the altar servers. I don’t see how a priest can set rules for children that are fully covered (so you really can’t see their clothes and barely can see their shoes) that are stricter than for adults. Of course my family is a military family so we are used to uniformity and that may influence my feelings on this matter. The priest really does reserve the right to make these rules though. Accept it or move on.
Man, the dress code at my parish must be extremely liberal then!
I frequently talk to my priest before Mass, and the alter girls show up wearing tank tops and mini shorts, all with varied and different hairstyles as well.
Some of the outfits I’ve seen I am shocked their parents would allow their daughters to come to church dressed like that - especially alter girls! We live in very liberal and loose times I guess.