Video shows Albuquerque police killing homeless man


#1

cnn.com/2014/06/20/us/albuquerque-police-investigation/index.html?iref=allsearch

Warning that he video is disturbing. I hope this is OK to post. I am usually all for defending law enforcement and I believe that the majority are good people but this doesn’t seem right. Watching the video I don’t see how anyone could claim “context” here.

This shooting doesn’t look justifiable to me, or the treatment once he is down.


#2

I get sent to a page that reads, “Pope Francis says he opposes making recreational drugs legal.” :confused:

Edit: I think this is the page you want.


#3

Wow. That is horrible. Justice must be served.


#4

And people want only the state to be allowed to have guns.


#5

Amen.


#6

That does look bad. But I’ve found that when these shootings happen, it is after a long, drawn out battle to get the victim or perp or whatever we’ll call him, to lay down, put his/her hands up, etc. The report here says the police were trying to get this man to give up for five hours. That’s a long time. And it looked like after they threw the stun grenade, and before he was shot, the victim reached around his pants like he was looking for something.

When the police want you to do something, the last thing you should do is make it look like you are pulling a hidden gun out of your clothes. It’s a sure way to get shot. You have to cooperate, unless you want to die. Cops are hyper vigilant about NOT getting shot by the people they are trying to arrest. Unfortunately this man may have been mentally ill and unable to cooperate.


#7

We will tranquilize a loose panther, but shoot a man. A cornered panther is much more dangerous than a homeless, mentally ill man defending his campsite.

Each time we sin, sometimes the next one is a little easier.


#8

We only tranquilize animals if the right people can be called and arrive before the animal becomes dangerous. There are numerous instances of law enforcement shooting and killing wild bears in my state, and shooting escaped exotic animals, because they were dangerous before someone with a powerful enough tranquilizer can respond. The problem with tranquilizers in humans have the same problems as stun guns have. They may actually kill the person. The person may be allergic, the tranquilizer might cause someone with a compromised condition to experience cardiac arrest, stop breathing, or even not work, it might react with medications the person is taking or even illegal drugs, and might not even work.


#9

I have lived in Albuquerque for the past three years. This shooting was kind of the “last straw” that led to a lot of protests and arrests, particularly in my neighborhood. I went out a few days after the news broke to get some groceries, found the end of the my street blocked off by police vans with riot police in full gear at the ready (I turned around and went back home, obviously). The immediate aftermath of this shooting was really a low point in this city’s recent history, and that’s kind of saying a lot. I don’t know if everyone actually read the linked article but as it says there: “Records show that 26 people have been killed by city police in Albuquerque since 2010, a per capita rate of officer-involved deaths higher than New York City and Chicago.” There is definitely a feeling that the APD is out of control, and it’s not just the college student/left-wing/activist crowd who feel that way, either. A poll conducted by the Albuquerque Journal in the week after the shooting found that only 15% of the city’s residents considered the shooting of Boyd to be justified or possibly justified. A solid majority of city is against the police department in this case and similar cases, and confidence in department to reform itself or repair its relationship with the citizens is very low, particularly since the Department of Justice released its findings from a year long investigation into allegations of excessive use of force, which concluded that the APD frequently uses excessive force, including deadly force, in situations in which it is not justifiable, and that the conduct of APD officers often increases the danger involved in police interactions with the public. You can read the report, watch the press conference associated with it, or skim highlights of it courtesy of KRQE (the local news) at this link.

Neither Albuquerque nor the APD is all bad, but this is one area where things are really not up to code for a city of this size. There are already certain places I wouldn’t go because of crime not involving the police, but unfortunately I also avoid any place where I see police talking to people, even if it’s on my way. It’s not worth potentially getting tangled up in something, given the deserved reputation the police here have for letting their aggression get the better of them. It’s sad that the APD has such an adversarial relationship with the public and some of city government, but I suppose that’s what happens when you kill a bunch of people for reasons that don’t really stand up to scrutiny. Even Mayor Barry has gone on record as saying that APD’s police chief was wrong to call the shooting justified.


#10

I’ve lived in ABQ myself for almost 9 years. The guy was homeless, and didn’t have a gun. Apparently, he had a knife, and the first cop that shot him (who conveniently didn’t turn on his lapel camera - though the media just found that out LAST WEEK after months of APD saying that they had the officer’s lapel video, but that the FBI wouldn’t let them release the video) stated that Mr. Boyd tried to attack the K-9 shown in the video with his knife, and that’s why they shot him. Regardless, Mr. Boyd was suffering from severe mental illness. I can’t remember whether the cops were asked simply to check up on him because his family was worried or whether they were trying to arrest him for misdemeanor criminal trespass (trying to squat/illegally camp on public land). Seriously - the problem with APD has primarily been that they’ve ended up escalating situations with people dealing with mental illness - many incidents that they’ve used force (deadly or otherwise) were actually caused by APD creating the situation themselves. And most of the cops hadn’t been trained in actual crisis management. And, of course, the DA’s office has claimed that EVERY use of force by APD was justified.


#11

I am reminded of the quote from the catechism:

“One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.”

It is never morally justifiable to kill a man to protect an animal.

This was one of the more stupid and inept use of force I have seen. They had a lot of resources in play, but no coordination. The use of the flashbang is fine, but the release of a canine on a man with a knife, then shooting him for having a knife with the canine released, is criminally negligent. At the end, the fired bean bags. What the heck?!? If they had that on the scene, why didn’t they use that as a pain compliance to drop the knife? They had everything else, what about a little OC? If they are trying to get him to move, it is number one on the hit parade at denying an area. He would not have stayed there sucking gas.


#12

If he had a gun I don’t think he would have lasted as long as he did.

It seems to me that tazzers, or even the bean-bag gun would have done the job. But for the police it’s hard for them to tell that a person is mentally ill or just high on drugs. You factor in a weapon like the two knives the man was holding and… WE need to pressure our legislature to come up with a solution to the way we mis-handle the mentally ill in our nation.

As a side note. This is something to think about when you see a homeless person camping in a remote spot. Are they really doing any harm, and should you maybe give them a few dollars as opposed to calling the police?

ATB


#13

True, but I have found that a good deal of the homeless who chose to reject food and shelter usually congregate in these type of camps. Enabling then doesn’t help either.


#14

I don’t see your point.


#15

Unfortunately, under the law, K-9s are considered police officers. If a person kills a K-9, then that person is charged with first degree murder of a police officer - not just extreme animal abuse. And seriously, no use of force here would have been justified. Seriously - Mr. Boyd wasn’t being a threat to anyone. He wasn’t even intending to use his knives as weapons - he was using them to eat! Seriously - the multitude of police that came onto the scene (including SWAT) scared the guy, and he thought that they were trying to hurt him. He was suffering from severe mental illness (possibly PTSD or schizophrenia).

The people who called the cops were thinking that the cops would be able to help Mr. Boyd, figuring that the cops could at least help him get to a homeless shelter for a night. Don’t blame the people who called the cops for trying to do the right thing - or for the cops creating their own bad situation.


#16

Legally, it is justified. If a command from an officer is lawful, and then it is not obeyed, force can be used to enforce the command. The only way to say that* no* force is justified is to say that the command to vacate the area was not justified. That is a whole different issue and one that not all would agree on.


#17

Therein lies the real problem…the media, Govt, and Law enforcement in general have brainwashed alot of people into thinking they have to call police on literally anything they see which doesnt fit their description of ‘normal’…Ive never seen a public so ready to call police as in current times…that is really scary imo! LOL GEEZ!


#18

26 people killed by APD and 40 wounded in 4 years seems excessive.

I would be afraid of the police if I lived in Albuquerque.
Do they have a high crime rate there?

I know so many homeless people are mentally ill. They had been there 5 hours with him. Too bad after so long a time it had to end so tragically!


#19

Public opinion has a major inconsistency. We see here why democracy sometimes does not work, namely, when the majority want mutually contradictory actions. The majority do not want to pay in taxes what it takes to help all the mentally ill away from society. Yet the majority also do not want the mentally ill in society, at least “in their neighborhood.” We cannot have it both ways. Do you guys want to know the number one charge that the mentally ill are booked on? Criminal trespass. A person will show up and customers are uncomfortable so the store calls the police to arrest the person. In Texas, the number one mental health care organization is the state prison system, followed closely by local jails cumulatively.

This is a travesty. I do not know the answer, other the store personnel and the public at large not being such inconsiderate, uncharitable jerks when it comes to the mentally ill. Perhaps the public could be better educated in this. I know of no easy answers. Warehousing these people is not a good answer, but warehousing them in prisons and jails is the worst possible answer.


#20

It is higher than average, but not anything that would justify the rate at which the APD is involved in killing, shooting, and otherwise injuring people: Albuquerque crime statistics


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