Vineyard Churches??


#1

My buddy ( although 1st gen GreekAmerican) born and raised Roman Catholic, just married a girl whose whole family (and herself as well I believe) are all members of this “Vineyard Church”. Anyone ever hear of it? Are they the type of Protestant sect that is “anti-Catholic” per se? Because at the wedding, although the girl technically converted to Catholicism now , I got kind of a distinct vibe that her family was not very happy at all about it.


#2

They are indeed often anti-Catholic. She should be made aware of the catholic answers site so as to be prepared.


#3

The Vineyard Churches are a mostly Nondenominational Evangelical group and as typical for Evangelicals, not happy when one of their own crosses the Tiber. Not much sympathy for Catholicism, that’s for sure.

She should definitely learn her new faith well.


#4

[quote=TheBigQ]My buddy ( although 1st gen GreekAmerican) born and raised Roman Catholic, just married a girl whose whole family (and herself as well I believe) are all members of this “Vineyard Church”. Anyone ever hear of it? Are they the type of Protestant sect that is “anti-Catholic” per se? Because at the wedding, although the girl technically converted to Catholicism now , I got kind of a distinct vibe that her family was not very happy at all about it.
[/quote]

They broke off from the Calvary Chapel non-denom denomination. A hybrid of Charismatic evangelical and quaker. As that was the founders background John Wimber they are deep into music and charismatic experience and light on theology a good catholic apologists can run circles around them. But that won’t make them convert was with most non-denoms they are suspicious of anything catholic. So yeah I thing your right on they won’t be happy of thier daughter’s decision.


#5

All these comments about the vineyard are way off the mark. First, they are not nondenominational; the Vineyard is a denomination.

And they are generally less anti-catholic than most evangelicals since they are pretty laid back. Obviously, they don’t agree with many of the church’s teachings otherwise they would be catholic. And most parents wouldn’t want their children practicing a faith they don’t agree with, but I hope the standard being being “anti-catholic” is a little higher than this.

Kendy


#6

[quote=Kendy]All these comments about the vineyard are way off the mark. First, they are not nondenominational; the Vineyard is a denomination.

And they are generally less anti-catholic than most evangelicals since they are pretty laid back. Obviously, they don’t agree with many of the church’s teachings otherwise they would be catholic. And most parents wouldn’t want their children practicing a faith they don’t agree with, but I hope the standard being being “anti-catholic” is a little higher than this.

Kendy
[/quote]

2 of my very dear friends attend a Vineyard church. They (my friends) are not anti-Catholic at all. They aren’t pro-Catholic, because they are doing their own thing, but I never picked up any anti-Catholic stuff from my friends.

Here is something I find amazing, their pastor went to a Christian conference in Rome and after being at the Vatican came back and said they were going to change some things at their church. I heard this from my friend but I don’t know any details yet. This vineyard church just started a teaching series on " after the acts", what happened in the early Christian church. I have been praying that they will tell the story accurately and not just pick and choose what they want to represent about the early church. I wonder what this pastor found in Rome that he would like to make changes?

My vineyard-going friend has attended my Catholic church once. Of course, she thought it was different due to the contemplative nature. I attended a prayer service at the Vineyard church once and found it more like a pep-rally and I missed the contemplation and the Eucharist. Before the service, my friend met some ex-Catholics that had just joined the Vineyard. They started bashing the Catholic church, but my friend stepped in and said how she had just gone to her first Catholic Mass and how her life is so busy and when she needs time for quiet and reflection she will come to church with me. That shut up the Catholic-bashing ex-Catholics.


#7

another aspect that comes into play is, their discipleship movement, Shepherding movement it goes to extremes.

In fact, in such a church a member is expected to get permission to go on vacation, and the pastor tells his members where to go on vacation, and where they can not go on vacation based on “Spiritual Mapping”. Pastor’s also tell people who to marry. Each person is assigned a discipler, so that there is a chain of command. And, the discipler has too much power, authority over the disciplee. It is a very controlled enviroment and it is spiritual abuse.

google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=spiritual+mapping

google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=discipleship+shepherding+movement+abuses&spell=1

Emphasize healing in a catholic context, she may be out to escape the abuse she was given in that church.


#8

google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=vineyard+spiritual+abuse&spell=1

spiritualabuse.org/books/abuse.html

I attended a Vineyard church for a few years until 1994 when I left. There are quite a few things I could say about my Vineyard experience in specific and the Vineyard denomination in general. I could fill up many pages with my own testimonials and direct experiences, as well as the reports of others. However, I will crunch it all down the best I can on this one page, by not dredging up alot of specific details.
**
My purpose for writing about the Vineyard is not to amaze or shock, but rather to acknowledge the fact that there are common patterns of both charismatic immaturity and spiritual abuse in this denomination and others like it.** I know that even acknowledging or discussing such a thing at all will offend some, but what should be more offensive than discussing such things is the fact that there have been many believers who have suffered personal devastation and spiritual difficulty because of Charismatic immaturity and spiritual abuse. What should be more offensive is that there are excuses and cover-ups for this abuse, rather than acknowledgment and healing or repentence.

harvestnet.org/teachings/vineyardandrenewal.htm


#9

[quote=Daniel Marsh]another aspect that comes into play is, their discipleship movement, Shepherding movement it goes to extremes.

In fact, in such a church a member is expected to get permission to go on vacation, and the pastor tells his members where to go on vacation, and where they can not go on vacation based on “Spiritual Mapping”. Pastor’s also tell people who to marry. Each person is assigned a discipler, so that there is a chain of command. And, the discipler has too much power, authority over the disciplee. It is a very controlled enviroment and it is spiritual abuse.

google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=spiritual+mapping

google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=discipleship+shepherding+movement+abuses&spell=1

Emphasize healing in a catholic context, she may be out to escape the abuse she was given in that church.
[/quote]

This is also not true. It may have been one church’s abuse, but it is not at all reflective of the Vineyard. I think there might be some Vineyard bashing on this thread.

Kendy


#10

My only contact with them has been witnessing at abortion facilities. They seem very sincere and dedicated.

I did attend the wedding of one couple I met there. It was the only wedding I have attended where the bride gave the homily. However, she gave the best description of the meaning of marriage I have ever heard. They did also ask us all to promise to hold them to the promises they were making that day.


#11

I have a Vineyard sister and a Southern Baptist brother.

My Vineyard sister has been supportive of me in my call to be Catholic. She intends on attending my baptism Easter Vigil. She is a prayer warrior, a missionary and helps on mission trips to Africa and Mexico. If this is an indication of the Vineyard fruit, it is a living branch.

My brother will not even enter my parish for my baptism. I hope he becomes more tolerant.


#12

[quote=Ted CharlotteNC]I have a Vineyard sister and a Southern Baptist brother.

My Vineyard sister has been supportive of me in my call to be Catholic. She intends on attending my baptism Easter Vigil. She is a prayer warrior, a missionary and helps on mission trips to Africa and Mexico. If this is an indication of the Vineyard fruit, it is a living branch.

My brother will not even enter my parish for my baptism. I hope he becomes more tolerant.
[/quote]

That sounds like the Vineyard I know:).


#13

[quote=Kendy]This is also not true. It may have been one church’s abuse, but it is not at all reflective of the Vineyard.
[/quote]

ah, yes it is true, in fact the link I gave above,
harvestnet.org/teachings/vineyardandrenewal.htm

Shepherding Movement Connections to Vineyard

It was the Full Gospel Business Men and Charismatic Renewal that brought in the Discipling or Shepherding movement, which continues to grow rapidly as many in leadership take the position they are neither to be doubted nor questioned. Parallel names for the theology involved are: headship, discipleship, covenant relationships, cell groups and accountability groups.

At the invitation of Mumford, Lonnie entered the beginning of the shepherding movement … The Way International began with Victor Paul Wierwille. …Lonnie and Connie Frisbee and the Wises began taking Wierwille’s PFAL classes and then discontinued. Lonnie then went to join Chuck Smith in Costa Mesa’s Calvary Chapel, which caused an explosion on growth. Frisbee eventually joined with John Wimber, who had also been with Chuck Smith. Wimber later split and helped start the Vineyard movement with Frisbee joining him and also others.

seekgod.ca/shepherding.htm

lets not forget the barking dogs.
google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Vineyard+movement+toronto

google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Vineyard+movement+discipleship+movement

vineyardboise.org/discipleship_ministries/groups/values.htm

vineyard-church.com/GettingConnected/DiscipleshipCommunities.php?dc=5
google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=vineyard+shepherding+movement+


#14

Don’t know much about the Vineyard church as a whole but my son dated a girl from the local Vineyard church. THey don’t believe in the trinity and they are very into the charismatic movement. They broke up because GOd told her to when she was praying in a Language that only god and she understand…hey isn’t there something in Corrinthians about speaking in tongues being forbidden if there is no one there to interprete? All I know is I was glad when he stopped dating her cause she had some pretty messed up ideas in life.


#15

[quote=BlestOne]Don’t know much about the Vineyard church as a whole but my son dated a girl from the local Vineyard church. THey don’t believe in the trinity and they are very into the charismatic movement. They broke up because GOd told her to when she was praying in a Language that only god and she understand…hey isn’t there something in Corrinthians about speaking in tongues being forbidden if there is no one there to interprete? All I know is I was glad when he stopped dating her cause she had some pretty messed up ideas in life.
[/quote]

Perhaps, this girl did not believe in the trinity, but the Vineyard certainly does. Here’s the Association of Vineyard Churches Statement of Faith.

vineyardusa.org/upload/Statement%20of%20Faith.pdf


#16

[quote=Kendy]All these comments about the vineyard are way off the mark. First, they are not nondenominational; the Vineyard is a denomination.
Kendy
[/quote]

Where do they say they are a denomination? I sure can’t find anything that says we are a denomination just obscure statements that we are a family of churchs the usual lingo that they are a non-denom demoniation. Aka Calvary Chapel the church they were seperated from. As these churchs are run independently the anti-catholic spin would many times depend on the pastor as is usual the case of non-denoms one Vineyard could be anti-catholic as some of us have experienced and another could be fairly ecunemical to catholics as some others have experienced as is the case with such churchs their are different opinions within the so called family of churchs.


#17

[quote=Wisdom]Where do they say they are a denomination? I sure can’t find anything that says we are a denomination just obscure statements that we are a family of churchs the usual lingo that they are a non-denom demoniation. Aka Calvary Chapel the church they were seperated from. As these churchs are run independently the anti-catholic spin would many times depend on the pastor as is usual the case of non-denoms one Vineyard could be anti-catholic as some of us have experienced and another could be fairly ecunemical to catholics as some others have experienced as is the case with such churchs their are different opinions within the so called family of churchs.
[/quote]

The Association of Vineyard Churches are no more independent than many baptist and pentecostal churches. In fact, the Vineyard churches have regional overseerers, which not the case for most other evangelical denomination. And they put out join resolutions and share information. In fact, the chicago area churches complete, from my experience, work pretty closely together. More so than the other evangelical churches I have been to. A lot of protestants don’t like the word denomination but that’s what they are even if they will use another word.

As for being anti-catholic, I often see some pretty belittling comments about protestants on CAF, does that make the catholic church anti-protestant?

Kendy


#18

Yes you do see petty quibbling and picking, and we should repent for this when we do it because it is wrong. We are Catholic by the grace of God. We should pray for our brothers and sisters and show them the love and mercy we have been shown. We should be prepared to answer for our differences in love. Only by this will they see God in our lives and want to be part of it.


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