Virgin Mary & miracles


#1

Hi,
I have some friends that like to talk a lot about various miracles in charismatic renewal and pentecostal churches. I have no problem with that, but they have a problem with Catholic veneration of Virgin Mary, so I want to present them with some miracles done on Mary’s intercession.

Can you please help me with collecting such miracles (healings, historical events, etc…)? I would appreciate any references, sources, etc…


#2

You could check this out: fisheaters.com/apparitions.html


#3

Here is an Anglican site (Society of Mary). If you look under the links it has hyperlinks to a number of the Shrines to Mary and I am sure you could gather information there.

societyofmary.net/

It includes a link to the Catholic Encyclopedia (re Shrines). Read the Fatima Network link with care. That site appears run by Fr. Gruner (a Roman Catholic Priest) who has an agenda in terms of being upset with some of the Church and EWTN. Not sure what it is all about. Has some good information if you wade through that.

One would think that your Pentecostal friends would be open to the miracles due to their own beliefs about healing and so on.


#4

I personally rather doubt that telling them about miracles done through prayer to Mary will change your friends’ minds on its own. There are scriptures that refer to saints’ involvement in human affairs after death. For instance, one scripture talks about a dead man being thrown into Elijah’s tomb and coming back to life. That would support the idea of relics and God’s presence still acting through saints after their deaths. Also, Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah even though Elijah and Moses were dead.

If you could show that the Early Church Fathers believed in prayer to saints, that might also help.

But it would be very hard to change the minds of most Protestants on things like this, once their beliefs are set. On a purely logical level, you could point out that we’re all part of the Body of Christ, both those on Earth and those in heaven, and when one part of the body suffers, all parts suffer, according to the scripture. So people in heaven feel for people going through trials on Earth. Isn’t it the most logical thing imaginable that they would want to pray for their brethren on Earth and intervene on their behalf? And if humans appealed to the saints that have passed on in a way that the saints could hear, why wouldn’t they respond?

Logically, the Protestant position doesn’t make much sense. There are scriptures in the proto-canonical books that support Catholic teaching on this matter, though the Protestants’ lacking the deuterocanonical books does hinder our ability to prove this to them.

Getting miracle examples will help. I don’t think they’d consider it valid proof- quite a few might even think it was a demon that did the miracle rather than God. But miracle examples would help. Logic and proto-canonical scripture citations might help more. Also, you might ask them on what they base their view that saints in heaven don’t intervene on behalf of those on Earth.


#5

Antimon

I tend to agree with Lief Erikson.

On the religion threads on Amazon, the atheists and agnostics will ridicule and belittle the Bible as little more than a comic book of ancient fairy tales, irrational stories and claims, and tenets of the faith that defy logic. Inevitably, some Christian, usually of the Pentecostal or Evangelical persuasion, will try to refute their post by citing the Bible, the very book they claim is laughable rubbish. And then the feeding frenzy of ridicule of that Christian poster begins. It’s sad.

I might suggest that you tread lightly using Marian miracles and apparitions as proof of our beliefs in Mary. It’s a little like using the Bible to prove something to people who don’t believe in the Bible. After all, you may find no enjoyment in watching a football game, and it would be foolish of me to try to prove how wonderful football is by explaining the halfback option pass to you.

When talking about Mary, I always state that our beliefs, though they are extra-biblical, are not necessarily anti-Biblical. God glorifies man by coming to us as one of us, through one of us. And, the position of the Church when it “approves” an event such as Fatima is stating that it has investigated it, and finds that there is nothing contrary to the deposit of the faith. Thus, Catholics are free to believe in and have devotion to an event, but no one is obligated to do so. It is a somewhat ‘negative’ endorsement. The Church doesn’t say the event is ‘true’, it is saying that there is nothing in opposition to the faith in it. (the only exception of course is the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary that was pronounced a tenet of the faith in 1950 by Pope Pius in an infallible ‘ex cathedra’ pronouncement)

A good thought several teachers I have encountered promulgate is the idea of ‘being open to the possibility’ of a tenet of faith. Rather than trying to ‘prove’ our beliefs, present Marian devotion well, and simply state that we all always open to the possibility of God’s intervention in our lives, through whatever means he chooses. And we see much of that intervention in his choice to come to us in the mother of His Son, in Bethelehem, in Nazareth, on Calvary, and through time.

Good luck, God Bless


#6

Frankly, we tend to see so-called miracles at shrines of mary as being demonic because in our minds they do not glorify Jesus.
You would be better off using

A dictionary of miracles, imitative, realistic, and dogmatic,
Author: Brewer, Ebenezer Cobham, 1810-1897.
Publication: Detroit, Gale Research Co

And choose those that clearly glorify Jesus.


#7

Tell me, if I asked you to pray for me for healing, and then God answered your prayer, would that glorify you or God?


#8

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