Warning! Being a Moslem could be self-destructive!


#1

Having lived in the Far East, I developed an interest in the paradox and its power. I quess certain aspects of Taoism rubbed off on this old Catholic. Therefore, I ended up looking at life and thought in a different manner than I did before living in the Orient.
After 9/11, because of potential repercussions, I decided to take a closer look at the Moslem world and found that paradox is alive and well even here.
Case in point: When I lived in the Phillipines, I learned about the Spanish efforts to subdue the Moslem northern thrust into this land. Unfortunately, the Spanish didn’t seem too successful in stopping the depredations of the Moros. They found themselves in much the same predicament as we now find ourselves in Iraq, with officials being killed, buildings being blown up and the assassinations of civilians. Many of the Moslems were heaven bound on Jihad against these infidels and nothing could stop them. However, when the Americans arrived and ran into the Moro welcoming tactics, they were able to stop what the Spanish never could by using the Moslem faith against itself. At that time Gen. Henson was at wits end until he discovered a inherent Moro weakness that had gone unnoticed by the Spanish. So having caught eight terrorist in the act, he had a trial and having found them guilty pronounced their death sentence for the next day. These were brave men who now knew that heaven was their reward. The next morning, they were marched out to be tied to eight post. However there were seven in a row and the eighth was posted facing them. There they stood proudly defiant, that was until Gen. Henson had a hog brought out and proceeded to slaughter it and then smear the seven with the blood and fat from the pig. Almost instantly, what was bravery and bravado turned into dread and then panic as the seven began to beg for their lives. Unfortunately, for them the general had found out that the Moslems believe that if they are tainted with pork and die that they will go to hell. So, they stood there all day long until evening when the firing squad ended this agony. Henson then told the eighth terrified member that he would be set free and told to go back home and tell his kinsmen what would happen to them if they were caught trying to forment trouble. All Moro terrorist activity came to an abrupt end in less that three weeks due to the the spreading of this warning.
That lesson comes from history, but what does it have to do with the Moslem faith and how does paradox inter the equation? Answer: There seems to be an ingrained weakness built into this belief system, which leaves me with two options. First, either Allah, permitted a devout follower to go to hell in obeying the Koran by dying after being tainted with pork. (Think of the Moslem warriors who died in battle against Crusaders who oiled their weapons to preserve them with pork fat). Or didn’t Allah know that he would loose a follower if that follower became tainted with pork? If the rational is that I misinterpret this belief then I would answer that in real life examples of a living faith, that the Moslem nations of south-east Asia understood this otherwise and ended any progress that they could achieve due to a “cultural understanding” they believed caused by pork. Is this problem still relevant today? My understanding is that bullets tipped with lard have the same effect now as in times past. So, why would I even consider to want to become a Moslem if my future outlook between heaven and hell included this possible outcome. Besides I would much prefer, the wisdom of experiencing a profound love even for my enemy than just a feeling of obedience and submission to a higher power. Long live love and paradox.


#2

Hi
Unfortunately you started your study of Islam whith those people who follow decadent notions, having not a glimpse of what Muhammad/Quran/Islam in reality said and did. Kindly base you study in peaceful Islam.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.


#3

Like it or not, this IS the real Islam he is referring to here… “things” such as dogs, pigs, and yes, even kafirs, are all najis (which they say make you spiritually unclean when you touch them). Don’t try to re-invent Mohammed or Islam for us, it’s not going to accomplish anything.


#4

Hi Paarsurrey, I lived around Buddhist and found dialogue with them fruitful. I am pleased to be able to dialogue now with those Moslems who are open and in good faith. One of the most wonderful young ladies that I had the chance to meet and get to know was an Iranian Moslem. We had a number of good discussions. However, for all people of good will, I am afraid that time is running short. Unfortunately, people like yourself, may in the next decade find themselves in trouble for trying to bridge the gap between the House of Submission and the House of War. Yet while there is time, I hope that an evolution in spiritual understanding can occur between people like ourselves.
Peaceful? I once saw a Egyptian sponsored movie sanctioned by a board of clerics tell the life of the Prophet. The reason the clerics had to sanction it was because it depicted the Prophet, they found a way around picturing him by portraying two views of him. One was of his view through his eyes, and the other: A reflection of a shadow that showed a man holding his sword. The main emphasis that was used to show why Islam was the true religion was the miracle of how fast the faith grew due to a war like mentality and resultant actions. Sad. I hate to think of the major reason for the early spread of Christianity being due to death and destruction to prove its point. However, please feel free in trying to open wider our understanding for we do need people of good-will who try to widen their knowledge of other cultures. May God or Allah protect you in your views among your people. If the Sunni and Shiia look on each other as heretics and worthy of killing, then what is your status in that world which chooses death over life? I will be looking for some of your post and if I seem to be picking on any of you I apologize for I have learned that in what seems like disagreement with a view that I tend to reflect and learn. There is nothing that I like better than a disagreement for it is in controversy real character and soulful feelings and ideas are brought forth. Thanks.


#5

Interesting. I wonder if there is a black market among US troops for bacon fat… :rolleyes:


#6

Muslims don’t believe you’ll go to Hell if you die with pork fat on your body, that’s really quite ridiculous. There’s a common principle throughout Islam that God will never make religion a greater burden than we can bear. Why else does it say in the Qur’an (5:3) that Muslims can eat pork and other haram meat if there was nothing else available to eat?


#7

Is it just me, or is the title of this thread a very funny pun?:rotfl:


#8

Dare I ask what might be the “other haram meat”? It sounds kind of scary to me!

~~ the phoenix


#9

Well, haram meat is given in the Qur’an as thus:

*Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat; blood; the flesh of swine; that which has been dedicated to any other than God; that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal, unless you are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) with arrows (gambling), that is a transgression. This day those who reject faith have given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is compelled by hunger, with no inclination to sin, God is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. *(5:3)

Mostly the same as the laws you’ll find in the Old Testament.


#10

Hi
I think there is some contradiction or confusion in the minds of some Christians, on one hand they would like Muslims to be peace loving people, but then they would not accept it if somebody presents something peaceful.
After when GodAllahYHWH appointed Muhammad SAW KhatamunNabiyyeen, a ProphetMessenger at the age of forty, he lived for twenty three years. He spent thirteen years in Mecca and the rest in Madina.
First we take** thirteen **years he spent in Mecca, during these years:

  1. Please mention name of just one person whom Muhammad converted to the fold of Islam by sword. Please present evidence from Quran.
  2. Please mention name of one person whom Muhammad killed in these thirteen years for not accepting Islam. Please present evidence from Quran.
  3. Please mention name of one person who wanted to go back from Islam to his previous faith or another faith and Muhammad denied him his right and whom Muhammad killed for apostasy in these thirteen years. Please present evidence from Quran
    There is not a single case in all these categories.
    Thanks
    I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
    The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

#11

How is this a contradiction? What I wish Islam to be has nothing to do with what Islam proves itself to be in reality. Certain people may also wish to re-define Islam as something “peaceful”, but they will have to come to terms with reality as well… although I do affirm their desire for peace is admirable enough.


#12

Kadaveri - Greetings. Kadaveri, I appreciate your concise reply from the teachings. Still, as a student of history, it seems strange that those Moslems of South East Asia could have been so ill-informed as to desist from further progress through warfare as to be simply stopped by Henson’s actions, and that was one of the key ingredients. Since Henson found out that the terrorist had to get the OK from their religious leaders before conducting their raids, would this mean that the their Moslem teachers were so uneducated? Well, stranger things have happened.


#13

Greetings Paarsurrey, I appreciate those who can communicate or try to communicate in a second language, thanks for the communications. I was rather surprised by your three questions which boils down in believing that the Koran doesn’t advocate killing or warfare for the faith. Just quickly, I will list a few statements that I thought come from the Koran: “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them.” 2:217. Or, “You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise. Now enjoy what you have WON as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah.” 69:30-37. or “Allah promises you much BOOTY that ye will capture, and hath given you this in advance, and hath withheld men’s hands from you, that it may be a token for the believers, and …” 48:20-21. or "They ask you concerning the Prey. Say the Prey is God’s and his Prophet’s…And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger…8:41. The above mentioned quotes must have involved action that led to the death of at least not one but at least two people, because you can’t loose your head without death.
Further, history can speak volumes. What of Muhammad’s first action in faith in early 624 AD, when he recieved a revelation allowing warfare during Ramada, which I understand was previously considered as a holy month even before his era. The raid was justified thus, "Warring therein is grievous: but to obstruct the way of God and to deny Him, to hinder men from the holy temple, and to expel his people, that is more grievous than slaughter. 2:217. Am I correct that at least one man was killed on this ambush of the caravan from Yemen and that Muhammad himself recieved a ransom of over 70 ounces of silver for his take? Finally, am I correct that the Sword verses have never been abrogated? If all the other subtitutions and abrogations within the Koran led to changes during his time, these sword verses speak volumes for what the Prophet really valued. Nevertheless, I am hoping that some of your response can help clarify my misunderstanding of some of these statements.


#14

ANy citations for the story in the original post? Sounds like fiction to me. I think your intitial understanding of Islam is seriously flawed. You seem to take a view similar to Shakespear’s Hamlet, who didn’t want to kill his uncle when he thought he was receiving absolution.


#15

Well yes it does mean those South-East Asian Muslims were misinformed (which doesn’t surprise me at all, quite low education standards in that area of the world). You can’t argue with the Qur’an on stuff like this, since this is where Islamic theology comes from in the first place. If a Muslim is contradicting the Qur’an they are quite simply wrong.


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