Was Christ really the Rock? No but


#1

An argument against the primacy of Peter comes from the Church fathers, and is a supposed quote from Augustine’s Retractiones, “It was not said to him, ‘Thou art a rock,’ but ‘Thou art Peter,’ and the Rock was Christ.” I have searched extensively online for the text of Augustine’s work, but have found nothing, and so cannot verify this quote’s accuracy, or in what context it lays. Can anyone clarify this?

another is this:

St. John Chrysostom (Homilies of St. John Chrysostom Homily LIV)

“Upon this rock, that is, on the faith of his confession. Hereby He signifies that many were not on the point of believing and raises his spirit, and makes him a shepherd.”

Any clarification would be great


#2

[quote=michaelgazin]a supposed quote from Augustine’s Retractiones, “It was not said to him, ‘Thou art a rock,’ but ‘Thou art Peter,’ and the Rock was Christ.”
[/quote]

True, but misleading:

    1. Also I wrote, in the same time of my priesthood, a book against the epistle of Donatus … In which I said in a certain place of the apostle Peter, that on him as on a rock the Church was founded, which sense is also sung by the mouth of many in the verses of the most blessed Ambrose, where of the crowing of the cock he says: ‘At his crowing, he himself, rock of the Church, washed away his guilt’. But I know that afterwards I very often expounded thus what is said by the Lord: ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’, so that it is understood as upon Him whom Peter confessed, saying: ‘Thou art the Christ, son of the living God’, and Peter, named from this rock, is a figure of the person of the Church, who is built upon this rock and receives the keys of the kingdom of heaven. For it was not said to him: ‘Thou art the Rock (petra)’, but ‘Thou art Peter (Petrus)’. The Rock however was Christ; in confessing whom, as the whole Church confesses him, Simon was called Peter. However, which of these two opinions is more probable, let the reader choose. (Retractationes, lib. I)

It should be added that Augustine also proposes a third interpretation elsewhere, even more favorable to the privileges of the Apostolic See:

Or number the priests from the chair itself of Peter
and see in that order of fathers who succeded to whom:
this itself is the rock which the proud gates of hell does not conquer. (Psalm Against the Party of Donatus, 238-240)

[quote=michaelgazin]St. John Chrysostom (Homilies of St. John Chrysostom Homily LIV)

“Upon this rock, that is, on the faith of his confession. Hereby He signifies that many were not on the point of believing and raises his spirit, and makes him a shepherd."
[/quote]

Real quote, but let’s get some context from the same homily (54 on St. Matthew):

Seest thou how He, His own self, leads Peter on to high thoughts of Him, and reveals Himself, and implies that He is Son of God by these two promises? For those things which are peculiar to God alone, (both to absolve sins, and to make the church in- capable of overthrow in such assailing waves, and to exhibit a man that is a fisher more solid than any rock, while all the world is at war with him), these He promises Himself to give; as the Father, speaking to Jeremiah, said, He would make him as “a brazen pillar, and as a wall;” but him to one nation only, this man in every part of the world.


#3

[quote=michaelgazin]An argument against the primacy of Peter comes from the Church fathers, and is a supposed quote from Augustine’s Retractiones, “It was not said to him, ‘Thou art a rock,’ but ‘Thou art Peter,’ and the Rock was Christ.” I have searched extensively online for the text of Augustine’s work, but have found nothing, and so cannot verify this quote’s accuracy, or in what context it lays. Can anyone clarify this?

another is this:

St. John Chrysostom (Homilies of St. John Chrysostom Homily LIV)

“Upon this rock, that is, on the faith of his confession. Hereby He signifies that many were not on the point of believing and raises his spirit, and makes him a shepherd.”

Any clarification would be great
[/quote]

In addition to what everyone else said, it should also be noted that some writers, such as St. Hilary, in the same book, interpret the verse differently. Thus, some of them, at least, saw no contradiction between saying that Peter’s faith is the rock of the Church. And that Peter is the rock of the Church. Heck, even our catechism makes the point.

**424 **Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.

And:

**552 **Because of the faith he confessed Peter will remain the unshakable rock of the Church. His mission will be to keep this faith from every lapse and to strengthen his brothers in it.


#4

Is Christ the Rock?..Yes
Is Peter the Rock?..Yes
Is Peter’ divine gift of faith a Rock?..Yes
Are all united…Yes

st julie


#5

Is Christ the Rock?..Ye s
Is Peter the Rock?..Ye s
Is Peter’ divine gift of faith a Rock?..Yes
Are all united…Yes

:amen:


#6

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