Was Fr. Hardon's "The Catholic Catechism" once considered the norm of Catholic teaching?


#1

Here is a passage from Wikipedia:

Father Hardon's work The Catholic Catechism was a significant post–Vatican II work in the sense that it essentially brought modern Catholic teaching and faith into one book, unlike any other before. At the time of his death it had sold over 150,000 in hardback, and as a 623-page paperback had reached its 26th printing selling over one million copies.[6] **It served as the normative standard until the publishing of 1992's Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the official codified teaching of the Catholic Church, promulgated by Pope John Paul II. Hardon served as a consultant for the drafting of that document.**

Does that mean this book was considered to be the "norm" document that all Catholics were obliged to obey like they do with the CCC during that time?


#2

No it never had such a high status. I have had a copy for many read and have read parts of it, and in fact recall reading several reviews of it after it came out. It is a good reliable catechism for adults though, but wasn't considered a standard.


#3

The Priest that gave my daughter-in-law instructions 25 years ago, used his book and she is a wonderful Catholic wife and Mother. Fr. Hardon’s cause for canonization is underway. He told me himself that everything he ever wrote was written in front of the Blessed Sacrament. He also wrote the Catechisms used by Mo. Teresa’s Nuns. He gave me a copy of them. God Bless, Memaw


#4

What give you the impression we “obey” the CCC?


#5

Fr Hardon’s catechism was not considered a “norm” the way the CCC is. The CCC was written as a collection of Church teaching and was gone through by all the bishops around the world and was written for the purpose of being a basis on which “local” catechisms would be written. Fr Hardon’s catechism would be considered a “local” catechism, one written at the behest of one or more local bishops for the people he shepherds.


#6

Remember, catechisms are just summaries of the Faith, not rulebook in themselves. They are not infallible and although they are supposed to be free from error, that is not always the case.

Besides, the CCC wasn’t intended for use by laypeople. Bishops conferences were supposed to use it to draft national catechisms. The USCCB did that with the U.S. Catholic Catechism for Adults.

I prefer to use the Baltimore Catechism since it’s time-tested and (except for some minor points on fasting and marriage laws) basically still up to date.


#7

You have fallen for a big story. The CCC is and always was intended for the faithful too and they said that right from the beginning. It was those that want to mislead everything that started that whooper!!. It is to be used by the universal Church in every way. The reason why they stated that all future catechism books had to be in unity with the CCC is because for years most CCD books were in grave error on many things. I know because I taught CCD for 20 years during our most troubles years after Vatican II. I lived it. But thank God I belonged to Catholics United for the Faith and knew when my first parish was going off track, so I changed to another one that was entirely faithful to the true teachings of the Church and I had a very holy uncle, (of happy memory) that was a priest and I could talk to him anytime. Many RCIA classes use the CCC now too. I am not 100% sure but I do believe I read that the CCC is considered Infallible, since it came directly from the Vatican and the Pope.God Bless, Memaw


#8

[quote="Memaw, post:7, topic:334737"]
You have fallen for a big story. The CCC is and always was intended for the faithful too and they said that right from the beginning.

[/quote]

Well, yes and no.

From the Catechism:

III. The Aim and Intended Readership of the Catechism

11 This catechism aims at presenting an organic synthesis of the essential and fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine, as regards both faith and morals, in the light of the Second Vatican Council and the whole of the Church's Tradition. Its principal sources are the Sacred Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church, the liturgy, and the Church's Magisterium. It is intended to serve "as a point of reference for the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries".

12 This work is intended primarily for those responsible for catechesis: first of all the bishops, as teachers of the faith and pastors of the Church. It is offered to them as an instrument in fulfilling their responsibility of teaching the People of God. Through the bishops, it is addressed to redactors of catechisms, to priests, and to catechists. It will also be useful reading for all other Christian faithful.

[quote="Memaw, post:7, topic:334737"]
I am not 100% sure but I do believe I read that the CCC is considered Infallible, since it came directly from the Vatican and the Pope.God Bless, Memaw

[/quote]

This is not correct. Documents are not infallible nor does the Church teach that the Catechism is infallible or inerrant.


#9

[quote="Memaw, post:7, topic:334737"]
You have fallen for a big story. The CCC is and always was intended for the faithful too and they said that right from the beginning. It was those that want to mislead everything that started that whooper!!. It is to be used by the universal Church in every way. The reason why they stated that all future catechism books had to be in unity with the CCC is because for years most CCD books were in grave error on many things. I know because I taught CCD for 20 years during our most troubles years after Vatican II. I lived it. But thank God I belonged to Catholics United for the Faith and knew when my first parish was going off track, so I changed to another one that was entirely faithful to the true teachings of the Church and I had a very holy uncle, (of happy memory) that was a priest and I could talk to him anytime. Many RCIA classes use the CCC now too. I am not 100% sure but I do believe I read that the CCC is considered Infallible, since it came directly from the Vatican and the Pope.God Bless, Memaw

[/quote]

Actually this is incorrect. The CCC is not infallible. The CCC contains a summary of Church teachings (both infallible and non-infallible) plus disciplines.


#10

Fr Hardon’s The Catholic Catechism is a great work, solidly orthodox. As already mentioned he is under consideration for beatification.

The CCC is, as the acknowledged St John Paul II has declared in his Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum:
“I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith…a sure and authentic reference text for teaching Catholic doctrine…offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (Cf. 1Pet 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes….while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to Catholic doctrine.”


#11

[quote="thistle, post:9, topic:334737"]
Actually this is incorrect. The CCC is not infallible. The CCC contains a summary of Church teachings (both infallible and non-infallible) plus disciplines.

[/quote]

The CCC is part of the Teaching Magisterium of the Catholic Church and all Catholics should know that that is infallible. God Bless, Memaw


#12

Thank You, God Bless, Memaw


#13

It is also true that no document is infallible, as 1Ke has stated.

No document is infallible – the defined dogma or doctrine within is infallible -- the Pope hands down a certain, decisive judgment that a point of doctrine on faith or morals is true; its contrary is thus false.


#14

You are wrong. The CCC is NOT infallible and the Pope’s statement that it “is a sure norm for teaching” is NOT an infallible declaration.
The CCC contains infallible and non-infallible teachings. To say the CCC is infallible would mean the non-infallible teachings are infallible which is nonsense.


#15

Don’t trust Wikipedia to tell you what the “norm” is in regards to Catholicism. :wink:

No pope formally promulgated Fr. Hardon’s catechism. It’s a fine work, but it’s not the same type of thing as the universal Catechism.


#16

Fr. Hardon worked very closely with the Vatican and I would trust everything he ever said or wrote!!! The Holy Father asked him to write the catechisms for Mo. Teresa’s Nuns. So he was trusted by the Pope. That’s enough for me. He will be a canonized a Saint one day. Hopefully in my lifetime and I have been blessed to have known him. God Bless, Memaw


#17

You seem to missing the point. Even if Father Hardon’s catechisms are good and do not deviate from Church teachings that does not make them infallible just like the CCC is not infallible.
Neither the CCC nor any other catechism is infallible.


#18

I’m not missing anything. your on a one track mind,(as my Mom used to say), and stuck there I think. God Bless, Memaw.


#19

[quote="Memaw, post:18, topic:334737"]
I'm not missing anything. your on a one track mind,(as my Mom used to say), and stuck there I think. God Bless, Memaw.

[/quote]

You maintain the CCC is infallible. It is NOT as many here have pointed out to you.


#20

I have not “maintained” anything except my high regards for both the CCC and Fr. Hardon’s Catechism. You seem to be missing the point!!

Here is exactly what I said. “I am not 100% sure but I do believe I read that the CCC is considered Infallible, since it came directly from the Vatican and the Pope.”

Soooo,
Since it was given to us directly from the Vatican and is part of the “Teaching Authority” of the Church which is infallible, it is necessary that be believe and follow it’s teachings. What is your problem??? God Bless, Memaw.


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