Was Galileo forced to recant or else ...?


#1

Hi,

Was Galileo forced to recant or else …? Or was it his freewill desire to recant after his disobedience?

The below sounds scripted in order to make an example out of what happens when someone disobeys the Church and claims to be part of the Church. I wonder if he wasn’t Catholic, if the Catholic Church would have been able to stop him from trying to disprove the Church and scriptural teaching on geocentrism?

The Church teaches geocentrism still?

After reading through this and other parts on the website, I don’t know what the Church teaches or doesn’t teach!

The following is list of Cardinal Bellarmine’s most salient quotes:

 1.  “to affirm that the sun really is fixed in the center of the heavens...and the earth... revolves with great speed around the sun, is a very dangerous thing…by injuring our holy faith and rendering the Holy Scriptures false.” 

1633 - Galileo signs a statement which reads “with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse and detest the aforesaid errors and heresies and generally every other error, heresy and sect whatsoever contrary to the Holy Church…but, should I know any heretic or person suspected of heresy, I will denounce him to the Holy Office or to the inquisitor or Ordinary of the place where I may be…” 1664 – Pope Alexander VII issues Speculatore Domus Israel in which he solemnly sanctioned the condemnation of all books affirming the earth’s movement and the sun’s stability. Pope Alexander VII published a new official Index which included the Congregations prohibitions from 1596 to 1664. The pope declared “We, having taken the advice of our Cardinals, confirm and approve with Apostolic authority by the tenor of these presents, and command and enjoin all persons everywhere to yield to this Index a constant and complete obedience.”

1758 – Pope Benedict XIV removes Copernicus’ book from the Index, after editors removed nine sentences which taught that heliocentrism was a certainty. This was consistent with the Congregation’s decree in 1616 that the book would be banned until “corrected.” However, the Church’s condemnations of Copernicanism on the grounds that its teachings are heretical and contrary to Scripture is not (and never has been) overturned. — INTERESTING. Wonder why.

1950 – On August 12, Pope Pius XII issues the encyclical Humani Generis which addressed false opinions that were threatening to undermine Catholic doctrine. The pope, in echoing St. Augustine and Providentissimus Deus, declared that the modern exegete’s desire to depart from a literal interpretation of Scripture in favor of a non-literal interpretation was foreign to Catholic teaching: “Further, according to their fictitious opinions, the literal sense of Holy Scripture and its explanation, carefully worked out under the Church’s vigilance by so many great exegetes, should yield now to a new exegesis, which they are pleased to call symbolic or spiritual.” (no. 23). “Everyone sees how foreign all this is to the principles and norms of interpretation rightly fixed by our predecessors of happy memory, Leo XIII in his Encyclical Providentissimus Deus, and Benedict XV in the Encyclical Spiritus Paraclitus, as also by Ourselves in the Encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu.” (no. 24).

**What is the conclusion? Heliocentrism cannot be taught as a certainty. It is only a hypothesis, and a hypothesis can either be a possibly true explanation, or an avowedly false one. Science has not proven either geocentrism or heliocentrism, but the Scriptures, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church support the geocentric position. **

scripturecatholic.com/geocentrism.html


#2

It was not the fact Galileo said the universe revolved around the sun…

As a matter of fact, the pope was very interested in Galileo’s works. They were friends. He was very intrigued. What Galileo did was begin to speak outside of his boundries…he began to use his science to teach against theological teachings of the church. He should not have done that. Since a crime against the church/God was a crime against the state back then…he was punished. Do you want to hear the worst of his horrible, horrible punishment? He was sequesterd in his mansion of a home.


#3

In the end, Galileo recanted his heliocentric teachings, but it was not—as is commonly supposed—under torture nor after a harsh imprison- ment. Galileo was, in fact, treated surprisingly well.

As historian Giorgio de Santillana, who is not overly fond of the Catholic Church, noted, "We must, if anything, admire the cautiousness and legal scruples of the Roman authorities." Galileo was offered every convenience possible to make his imprisonment in his home bearable.

Galileo’s friend Nicolini, Tuscan ambassador to the Vatican, sent regular reports to the court regarding affairs in Rome. Many of his letters dealt with the ongoing controversy surrounding Galileo.

Nicolini revealed the circumstances surrounding Galileo’s "imprisonment" when he reported to the Tuscan king: "The pope told me that he had shown Galileo a favor never accorded to another" (letter dated Feb. 13, 1633); " . . . he has a servant and every convenience" (letter, April 16); and "*n regard to the person of Galileo, he ought to be imprisoned for some time because he disobeyed the orders of 1616, but the pope says that after the publication of the sentence he will consider with me as to what can be done to afflict him as little as possible" (letter, June 18).

Had Galileo been tortured, Nicolini would have reported it to his king. While instruments of torture may have been present during Galileo’s recantation (this was the custom of the legal system in Europe at that time), they definitely were not used.

The records demonstrate that Galileo could not be tortured because of regulations laid down in The Directory for Inquisitors (Nicholas Eymeric, 1595). This was the official guide of the Holy Office, the Church office charged with dealing with such matters, and was followed to the letter.

As noted scientist and philosopher Alfred North Whitehead remarked, in an age that saw a large number of "witches" subjected to torture and execution by Protestants in New England, "the worst that happened to the men of science was that Galileo suffered an honorable detention and a mild reproof." Even so, the Catholic Church today acknowledges that Galileo’s condemnation was wrong. The Vatican has even issued two stamps of Galileo as an expression of regret for his mistreatment. *

catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy


#4

Yea, I heard he was treated well! I just updated my original post as i read more through that website… not sure what to believe or what to defend against.

It seems that the Pope in the quote above said to take a non-literal approach to the scriptures… not sure how the interpretation could change and the Church is okay with that since geocentrism couldn’t have been dogma?

Also, it seems the Church still teaches Geocentrism? So, I don’t know…


#5

Hi GodHeals. Hope your RCIA classes are going well!

From what I understand…Galileo looked at the sky and said: since the earth is not at the center of the world and the physical reveals the spiritual…Man is not the “apple” of Gods eye.

This is where he crossed the line. He mixed his science with his theology (an area he did not have the right to speak of…the church does) and came up with bad theology that he publicly spoke of.

The church would look at his work and could reason a different way consistent with our catholic theology…man IS a speck in the cosmos…but that does not mean that we’re not a most special part of His creation.


#6

[quote="GodHeals, post:4, topic:314015"]
Yea, I heard he was treated well! I just updated my original post as i read more through that website... not sure what to believe or what to defend against.

It seems that the Pope in the quote above said to take a non-literal approach to the scriptures... not sure how the interpretation could change and the Church is okay with that since geocentrism couldn't have been dogma?

Also, it seems the Church still teaches Geocentrism? So, I don't know...

[/quote]

It is not a case of either geocentrism or heliocentrism being necessarily correct, since neither the Earth nor the Sun are at the center of the universe. That would mean both Galileo and Copernicus were mistaken about their heliocentrism. I don't think the Church ever had a position with regard to either view being true.


#7

[quote="GodHeals, post:4, topic:314015"]
Also, it seems the Church still teaches Geocentrism? So, I don't know...

[/quote]

The Church doesn't teach about science. That is up for the scientists to figure out, so I don't think the Church teaches Geocentrism. What is it that makes you think it does?

Also, science has well proven that the Earth revolves around the sun, the Church cannot deny that.


#8

Where do you get that?


#9

[quote="GodHeals, post:1, topic:314015"]
Hi,

Was Galileo forced to recant or else ...? Or was it his freewill desire to recant after his disobedience?

The below sounds scripted in order to make an example out of what happens when someone disobeys the Church and claims to be part of the Church. I wonder if he wasn't Catholic, if the Catholic Church would have been able to stop him from trying to disprove the Church and scriptural teaching on geocentrism?

The Church teaches geocentrism still?

After reading through this and other parts on the website, I don't know what the Church teaches or doesn't teach!

[/quote]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia on these issues.
newadvent.org/cathen/06342b.htm :thumbsup:


#10

[quote="agnes_therese, post:8, topic:314015"]
Where do you get that?

[/quote]

Just for fun, it may be mentioned that if one accepts relativity, the sun revolves around the earth and vice versa, simultaneously.


#11

There's quite a bit of misinformation on Galileo.

His controversial work on the solar system had no proofs of a sun-centered system and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid.

His “conflict” with the Catholic Church came when he wrote a booklet in which he made fun of the Pope, who was his friend, by having his arguments being uttered by a foolish character called Simplicio (literally “simpleton”).

It was, in fact, after the “trial” that he did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics.

Galielo claimed that the material and spiritual world had the same origin from the Creator, and that the values of science do not substitute those of revealed truth; he also stated that "if we truly lived in the age of science, this truth would be evident to all".

With regards to solar system, it was Copernicus - a Catholic priest or at least recipient of Minor Orders - who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. His system was presented before Pope Clement VII, who approved it, and urged Copernicus to publish it.


#12

Heliocentrism is wrong. There are two left standing. Acentrism and geocentrism. The math works either way. It comes down to a worldview as to which one might choose. The only way to know for sure is to look at our system from outside our own frame of reference.


#13

[quote="GodHeals, post:4, topic:314015"]
Yea, I heard he was treated well! I just updated my original post as i read more through that website... not sure what to believe or what to defend against.

It seems that the Pope in the quote above said to take a non-literal approach to the scriptures... not sure how the interpretation could change and the Church is okay with that since geocentrism couldn't have been dogma?

Also, it seems the Church still teaches Geocentrism? So, I don't know...

[/quote]

the first person to teach that the earth orbited the sun was .....

a doctor in canon Law, and a Roman catholic cleric - Nicolas Copernicus.


#14

[quote="buffalo, post:12, topic:314015"]
Heliocentrism is wrong. There are two left standing. Acentrism and geocentrism. The math works either way. It comes down to a worldview as to which one might choose. The only way to know for sure is to look at our system from outside our own frame of reference.

[/quote]

I admire your consistency.:thumbsup:


#15

[quote="Ridgerunner, post:10, topic:314015"]
Just for fun, it may be mentioned that if one accepts relativity, the sun revolves around the earth and vice versa, simultaneously.

[/quote]

The sun and earth (and the other planets) revolves around a point in space where their gravation are equal. :):hmmm::bounce:


#16

The center of this Universe being …that point where the big bang initiated…which mathematically, can be located.

Is that where God now sits, ruling the Heavens ?


#17

[quote="brb3, post:16, topic:314015"]
The center of this Universe being ....that point where the big bang initiated.....which mathematically, can be located.

Is that where God now sits, ruling the Heavens ?

[/quote]

Kinda like a cosmic PS3?


#18

[quote="GodHeals, post:1, topic:314015"]
Hi,

Was Galileo forced to recant or else ...? Or was it his freewill desire to recant after his disobedience?

The below sounds scripted in order to make an example out of what happens when someone disobeys the Church and claims to be part of the Church. I wonder if he wasn't Catholic, if the Catholic Church would have been able to stop him from trying to disprove the Church and scriptural teaching on geocentrism?

The Church teaches geocentrism still?

After reading through this and other parts on the website, I don't know what the Church teaches or doesn't teach!

[/quote]


#19

[quote="GodHeals, post:1, topic:314015"]
Hi,

Was Galileo forced to recant or else ...? Or was it his freewill desire to recant after his disobedience?

The below sounds scripted in order to make an example out of what happens when someone disobeys the Church and claims to be part of the Church. I wonder if he wasn't Catholic, if the Catholic Church would have been able to stop him from trying to disprove the Church and scriptural teaching on geocentrism?

The Church teaches geocentrism still?

After reading through this and other parts on the website, I don't know what the Church teaches or doesn't teach!

[/quote]

It is essential that people know the difference between Catholic doctrines based on Divine Revelation and individual pronouncements on science, otherwise known as the right to free speech. Even popes have this basic right to freely speculate about the planet which they walk on.

A look at Catholic history demonstrates that geocentrism was never properly declared a Catholic doctrine at a major Ecumenical Church Council. A decision in a local trial does not a doctrine make.

In other words, all Catholics, including high-ranking clergy, are totally free to agree or disagree with the scientific theory of geocentricism.


#20

It’s not JUST that… Galileo Galilei was ordained to minor orders; he was not a layman. He was thus subject to solemn promises of obedience, and had been instructed to not publish without imprimatur and nihil obstat…

… but published without submitting for imprimatur and nihil obstat.

For a layman, such dabbling in theology might have gotten a reprimand. But for a clerk (minor cleric), it was a direct violation of his ordination promises.


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