Was I wrong?


#1

I know in many traditional circles....the guy pursues the woman. In my case, I saw my guy at a and approached him ( though the attraction was mutual)a little over a year ago. I broke off the relationship after three months becuase at the time, he was not opening up to me, he had trust issues,etc.We also had some issues with chasitity(not intercourse but everything but) I didn't want to go back but continued to pray for him. Six months later, I began attending Mass at his parish becuase that was the only place nearby that offered Perpetual Adoration. We began talking again and the ling and short of it was that I asked him if he wanted to resume the relationship and he said yes.

Six months later, some hugh changes has happened within him. He has humbled himself a lot, really began to open up to me and is genuinely changing in a lot of ways. He was a great support to me through a very difficult time with my mom's illness and we do have a love for the Mass and Adoration. We have found out that we are compatible in many ways in terms of the mentals, having the same atttitudes about money, children, how a marriage ought to work,etc.

There are number of downsides......the chastity issues is still there, and has gotten more difficult the closer we have become( that is not to say I am ducking culpability). In addition, I am graduating in the next year and open now to be married ( I am 31). He while being in his mid-30's and single is not actively pursuing any vocation and still uncertain. Another twist to the story is that after graduation, I am obligated to stay three years in the country to fulfil scholarship obligations while he wants to migrateto further his career. He is professionally well off.

I am now fed up of having these chastity issues and while I have to play my part to avoid sin, I do feel that we are highly compatible and the best course would really be to be on the course to marriage. He defines our realtionship as "exploring each other".

Last night, I explained to him that I cannot go on like this and that it is unfair for him to be "exploring'' indefenitely while we are getting closer and closer, I asked that by the end of the year that he make up his mind if he wants to marry me or let me go to find someone who genunlely interested in being permanent.He has agrred that th eepriod is more than enough. As for me personally, I underestimated the strength of his physcial attraction to me and I have decided to to stop certain behaviours that lead us into unchastity as well as patch up my own spiritual life.

So my question is.......I am being too controlling here.....was I wrong? What do you think?


#2

My view is in short: not wrong, not controlling. You need and have the right to avoid sexual temptations. You need and have the right to be in a relationship that leads to marriage and not be in one that doesn't.


#3

You are not wrong. He is in his 30's and not a teenager. He's the one who is playing you.


#4

totally agree w/ the other two posters


#5

in our culture this usually has only one meaning, and since you say there is a problem in this area, that is probably true at least for him. No increasing sexual activity will not bring you closer together, before marriage it actually destroys intimacy because any other aspect of “exploring” is closed off. Get married or break it off. If two people are in love and old enough to marry they should marry. There is no “exploring” or some interim stage of “not being ready to commit”.


#6

You have a right to set boundaries, including the physical/sexual side of your relationship. (And so does he.)

"Exploring each other" in a relationship doesn't necessarily mean sexually, either. Apparently it's taking him a bit longer to feel comfortable to commiting than it is you.

I think you've set a reasonable limit. Neither of you are children.

In any case, you have to finish this educational course of yours before you can make any life-changing decisions, right?


#7

You sound like you're trying to get closer and closer to him spiriually, mentally, emotionally, and he's trying to get closer and closer to something else....
I'm not saying he doesn't care about you, but if he needs to "explore" that side of the relationship, then that's his only motivation right now. You laying on the "are you gonna marry me?!" pressure is not helping.

I don't thing you're "wrong", but I do think you're coming on a little strong on some points. You need to let him be the man. Let him pursue you. You said you broke it off before but then YOU pursued him again. Look at it from his point of view. If you break it off once more, he's just going to think, "all I have to do is wait, she'll be back" Clearly you have chemistry w/him to the point where you're "fed up" with having to deal with the tension btwn you. So why are you? You're allowing yourself to be led into temptation and I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but if he would man up and be strong for you and for himself, THEN he'd be showing a sign of change. Nothing is more attractive than an honorable man.

If he really wants to pursue a relationship w/you to the point of possible marriage, then let him. If I were you, I'd back off big time on the marriage stuff and the ultimatums.

Live your life to the glory of God. Pursue the vocation that God has for you. IF your guy is really meant for you, you wouldn't have to work so hard at hoping he'll change into the man you want/need him to be. He is who he is.

Focus on being the beautiful daugther of Christ you were created to be and take a break from this guy.

Peace... :signofcross:


#8

The little bit of info you gave us makes me wonder if he has the gonads to be what you want. There is no doubt in my mind that women do most of the chasing anyway. We guys just slow down a little....Oh, c'mon, I'm only partially serious here.:D However, there is one problem when a woman does do most of the intitiating - the man she attaches to does not have to try very hard. It is a little bit too easy and so he is more likely to need controlling/guidance/pushing/shoving in whatever direction you think you should go. The short of it is that you will end up wearing the pants. Still, that may suit you just fine. I wouldn't give him a year though. Halve it and then you propose and see what happens. Well why not, you are leading the team anyway, it seems.


#9

in our culture this usually has only one meaning, and since you say there is a problem in this area, that is probably true at least for him. No increasing sexual activity will not bring you closer together, before marriage it actually destroys intimacy because any other aspect of “exploring” is closed off. Get married or break it off. If two people are in love and old enough to marry they should marry. There is no “exploring” or some interim stage of “not being ready to commit”.

If you read the post, you would see that I explained the fact that while there was some sexual activity involved, the realtionship is not all that. There has been some SERIOUS discussion and still having about money, kids, life after marriage, our childhoods, parental patterns,etc. This is not a fun " play" relationship.

There is no need to advise me to get married or break it off becuase the agreement has already been made that we will DISCERN whether or not to marryi by the end of the year. The gentleman in question is not a bad person or a cad. We are two people who genuinely love God and his Church and facing some issues.

And as for advocating that becuase you get married simply becuase you are ready , you should, may I gently remind you that marriage is not only two people in love marrying, it is a blending of lives, careers, parental patterns and in our case, it is ALSO a cross cultural as well with our families in two different hemispheres.

So when my boyfirend speaks of “exploring each other” is not meant to be about hanky panky, it is really the truth…especially in a cross cultural realtionship such as ours.


#10

Respectfully, rushed marriages are not good and being in love is not a sufficient motivation. There’s a whole lot of problems that spending some time as friends or engaged couple (or something in between) could prevent. There’s a whole lot of issues that a short romance won’t unveil but a 1-2 years long one will, such as say, NPD, pathological lying, paranoia, various degrees of psychopathy, OCD, bizarre living habits, strange religious or spiritual beliefs, life-complicating results of past history… There’s no way to weed it all out in 3 months of dating, not sure about 9. It’s even worse when someone’s actively trying to conceal negative traits. Naturally, most of these bad decisions would’ve been avoided by not ignoring red flags early on, but people who are in love don’t react the same way and will be reluctant to “dump” the other one, say, for a single lie or for a bit of selfishness. They will suffer for some time unil they have had enough or seen enough.

“Exploring” has some bad connotations even if they aren’t sexual. It just has that vibe of consumption and it sounds like a justification and it sounds a bit like the liberal newspeak. I’m just trying to explain this vibe, so this is not rock-solid reasoning. Some people do use awkward words in a natural way, but to me it always tends to sound like anchoring (reference to a concept). You need to give him the benefit of doubt and the opportunity to explain, but at the same time one needs to pay attention to details when making a responsible decision.


#11

The little bit of info you gave us makes me wonder if he has the gonads to be what you want. There is no doubt in my mind that women do most of the chasing anyway. We guys just slow down a little....Oh, c'mon, I'm only partially serious here. However, there is one problem when a woman does do most of the intitiating - the man she attaches to does not have to try very hard. It is a little bit too easy and so he is more likely to need controlling/guidance/pushing/shoving in whatever direction you think you should go. The short of it is that you will end up wearing the pants. Still, that may suit you just fine. I wouldn't give him a year though. Halve it and then you propose and see what happens. Well why not, you are leading the team anyway, it seems.

I am not wanting to propose. This is not about forcing anybody to marry me. It is about the fact, that we......are not me {as one poster implied} are getting closer emtionally, mentally and yes, (sexual relationship aside) spritually. We are already very close as couple (and not nceassrily sexually) in terms of what we have shared, gone through,etc and I cannot go on getting any closer if I am not knowing where it might head. It is not about saying me you must marry me. It is about knowing where we are going. I wish I had the sort of parents who would ask what are your intentions for my daughter but I don't. There fore somebody has to ask him what are his eventual intnetions and no thave us hanging in the air just going along. I am did not say marry me or esle. I pointed out to him that it is not fair for me to be going along "exploring", going through all these intense emotions and experinces with him and no committment.

And somebody who quits his job and comes halfway around the world with no job and no family and makes a good life for himself is not a passive wimp either.


#12

I think you were not wrong. Every serious relationship hits this stage where you reach a level of "this relationship is headed toward marriage." If both parties agree, then you walk that road toward engagement and marriage.

For you, the relationship is spinning its wheels at the threshhold of this stage and you are not moving forward nor back. You have every right to nudge the relationship toward movement...whichever direction that movement may be. In my opinion, it's better to definitively find out if this relationship is going to work out or not rather than stay stuck and become an increasingly unhappy relationship (not to mention it that it also becomes more and more of an occasion of sin.)


#13

You said you broke it off before but then YOU pursued him again. Look at it from his point of view. If you break it off once more, he's just going to think, "all I have to do is wait, she'll be back"

That one is wrong there, dear. This is the first time I have EVER been in a relationship that broke up and I asked the other party back. Normally when it's over, it 's over.I did not pursue him back. I may have been the to ask the question but he was the one who started back talking with me. Until a day before I asked the question, I still was not going to come back.

I did not go to his parish to pursue him despite what anyone thinks. In fact until I started to go Mass there, I purposely went to Adoration at the times I KNEW he would not be there. My ma was very ill at the time and I wanted to AVOID going there but after a while it was like " why should I avoid Jesus becuase he is there, I need chrsit more than I need to avoid him?".........We started talking and I still wasn't having him. Becuase he KNEW that I was not the type to come back after a realtionship, he wouldn't have asked anyway.

So even when it began to become obvious that he still had feelings for me and I realized that despite it all I had feelings for him, I took the risk and I asked. We both have given each other a second chance and we both work hard on the realtionship despite it not being perfect.


#14

A year? I’d have given him a couple of months, max. You will be strung along for an entire year and then he will tell you he’s not ready. Why do I say this? Because he’s already TOLD you he’s not ready. You aren’t hearing him.

As to the ‘guy approach the girl’ thing. Yes, I believe that. I learned the hard way that doing it the other way around puts you into the situation you are currently in. He wasn’t interested in marriage and such. That is why he isn’t a pursuer. He’s a “whatever comes along” guy and you are filling that. He’s made it clear he isn’t interested in pursuing a vocation right now. He’s lukewarm in his faith. He’s thinking about moving for his professional objectives. He’s just not the guy you want him to be right now. Pursuing him has led you to become emotionally attached and wanting marriage and marriage was never his plan. Hence the ‘no pursuit.’


#15

*I don't think this man is all that into you, really. I think it would be in your best interest to let this relationship go...you don't seem to have the same future goals, as it relates to one another and marriage. I also (this is just me) don't believe in asking men out. If you were friends first, and it morphed into a relationship, that's one thing. But, I believe that the man should ask the woman; I think in part, he has kicked back and let you do all the pursuing and asking, and here you are, still wondering how he feels. I wonder if he had done the pursuing, if you would be experiencing this. Hard to say, really.

I would let this man go, because it just doesn't sound like it has the kind of marital potential you are looking for. I wish you luck, whatever you choose. *


#16

[quote="belovedandbless, post:9, topic:183898"]
If So when my boyfirend speaks of "exploring each other" is not meant to be about hanky panky, it is really the truth......especially in a cross cultural realtionship such as ours.

[/quote]

I am sorry for misunderstanding, all I could judge by was a concern you expressed at least twice in your post, about difficulties concerning chastity, and what comes through as your fear that he cannot commit. If the situation is otherwise, you can probably handle this yourself without outside help


#17

My advise is to DUMP THE GUY! You are wasting your time with him and as time passes the day will come when no man will be interested in you. This is the advice I gave my adult niece who was dating a man where there was no future in getting married because he wasn't committing himself to getting married.

The final straw that broke the camels back was when my niece lost her job and needed money to pay her rent. He has money but told her he couldn't help her. So she dumped him and I helped her out in paying her rent and now she has a new boyfriend that she truly likes and a fantastic job where she makes lots of money.

I don't see anything wrong in telling a man straight out that I am Catholic and I expect to be treated with respect..... which means "no sexual fooling around".

What does that man want to do? Explore your body and look for someone better to marry. Let this fish go and get a new start with a new boyfriend.

NO, YOU ARE NOT WRONG in saying you want to get married. He should have asked you to marry him a long time ago. There is nothing wrong in stating what you want.
He is a MAN and you don't need to walk on egg shells hoping that someday he will want to marry you. "DUH".

I am an old lady who has seen plenty of gals waiting for their boyfriends to ask them to marry them. Then after 2years of waiting.... they tell the guy it is over because their HEARTS HAVE TURNED COLD towards the guy.

The men then start crying and saying that they want to get married but the gals have turned cold as ice and they walk out on them.

Why wait until that day comes? You did right. GOOD FOR YOU! LaLucia


#18

I don't think this man is all that into you, really. I think it would be in your best interest to let this relationship go...you don't seem to have the same future goals, as it relates to one another and marriage. I also (this is just me) don't believe in asking men out. If you were friends first, and it morphed into a relationship, that's one thingrelationship go...you don't seem to have the same future goals, as it relates to one another and marriage. I also (this is just me) don't believe in asking men out. If you were friends first, and it morphed into a relationship, that's one thing.

Wow, it really a cross cultural thing how stuff can be misnterpteted.( I am not American) I never said that I asked him out first, I said that I appraoched him first, which means after happening to come out for tea, I spotted him, walked over and said hello. We began to talk....the convo was so engaging that HE wanted to continue and asked and we spent the rest of conference together. HE asked for the phone number and asked me out.

HE pays the bills when we go out (without me asking, it has always been that way unless I treat him, lol). HE opens doors. HE carries the heavy stuff. HE walks on the proper side of the road to protect me when we go out.HE is stubborn as hell when it comes to certain issues ....lol....As for the marriage, it is was already waving in the air as a hypothetical question on BOTH sides, not one. There was already talking ( without either of us flinching) about what we would do if we were one, including a hypothetical negotaition going on about location of the wedding.

We do have a more egalitarian relationship than tradtional couples would have but then we HAVE to negotiotiate everything becuase we are from two different cultures. In some ways we are figuring this out as we go along. Sometimes I bend to his cultrual mores, sometimes he bends to mine.


#19

[quote="belovedandbless, post:18, topic:183898"]
Wow, it really a cross cultural thing how stuff can be misnterpteted.( I am not American) I never said that I asked him out first, I said that I appraoched him first, which means after happening to come out for tea, I spotted him, walked over and said hello. We began to talk....the convo was so engaging that HE wanted to continue and asked and we spent the rest of conference together. HE asked for the phone number and asked me out.

HE pays the bills when we go out (without me asking, it has always been that way unless I treat him, lol). HE opens doors. HE carries the heavy stuff. HE walks on the proper side of the road to protect me when we go out.HE is stubborn as hell when it comes to certain issues ....lol....As for the marriage, it is was already waving in the air as a hypothetical question on BOTH sides, not one. There was already talking ( without either of us flinching) about what we would do if we were one, including a hypothetical negotaition going on about location of the wedding.

We do have a more egalitarian relationship than tradtional couples would have but then we HAVE to negotiotiate everything becuase we are from two different cultures. In some ways we are figuring this out as we go along. Sometimes I bend to his cultrual mores, sometimes he bends to mine.

[/quote]

*Ah! I apologize :tiphat: ....yes, I translated that totally wrong. lol

That said, you want marriage, he wants to 'explore' the relationship. I still don't think you're on the same page there, when it comes to how you both define things. Men who wish to marry--propose. You both could talk about wedding locations, and menus and if you want to have a chocolate fountain, all day long...but ....men who want to marry a woman...propose. They buy the girl a ring. What I'm saying is...be wary that he isn't just stringing you along, so you stick around...and he is doing this by hanging a carrot in your face (that he is WILLING to discuss marriage) I have been married for 18 yrs. My husband is a very traditional Catholic guy. He wanted to marry me, he asked.

Don't settle for less. (I say this, of course, if there has been enough time to cultivate a loving relationship, and it seems like there has been and that he just isn't there with you)*


#20

La Lucia,

If you read the post closely, you would see that BOTH of us are Catholic. This is not a man who is a cad. In a land where hardly any young faces are at Daily Mass, this person lives at Mass everyday (and to answer your question, yes, he goes to confession if anything happens between us). This is not a case of some guy being a cad. This is his first serious relationship.

My question was NOT whether the guy is a cad or whether sexual activity is wrong. We BOTH are aware that is wrong. My question was about whther or not I was right to set a limit .To say dump the guy is silly, simply becuase we are three months back into a realtionship where there was a six month break. Even though we have known each other for a year, in essence we are starting over again.

It has taken us this long to get over what happened in the past, and forgive each other (the breakup was not pretty) and get to a stage where we are focused on seriously getting in a realtionship. Despite the fact that there was some activity going on, it is not like it is every day or very week, far from..We both love the Eucahrist and both feel it deeply when we sin and cannot freely particpate in Mass and Adoration.

I said it is a struggle, not a throw-all- to the winds,we are going to do this regardless of whatever habit. When people hear about sexual activity,There is a knee-jerk judgemnt that the guy is a jerk, the girl is wronged and you are not holy people. Not so all the time.BOTH of us are culpable, not one.Both of love God and our Church. Both of go to church regualry and are involved in some kind of ministry. We are just simply struggling.


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