Was Jesus ignorant

Very little interest in this question in Sacred Scripture so I’ll try here.There are many places in scripture where Jesus shows real ignorance about things, that as God, he should know. For example, he says"…only the father knows"… as one example regarding the end days. There are many more statements that he made that make him seem just like any other human. He even begged his father to …“let this pass if it is your will…” If he was God wouldn’t he know his own will?? The more I read, the more I come to believe that Jesus was a human. As to miracles…the ancient Indian and Tibetan gurus also did many miracles as recorded in their histories. What is the main evidence that Jesus was God? Apparently it is not his ability to know the future, or the lack of fear of suffering and death to come.

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Jesus had a human soul and a human will in addition to having a divine will. Jesus as a man could be troubled, anxious, and even fearful. He would have prayed to God largely in the way a righteous Jewish man would be expected to.

Did it occur to you that the passages you cite may have received extensive commentary from Church Fathers and theologians? Or that they must also be reconciled with statements and actions that explicitly or implicitly affirm his divinity? And that having both these types of passages is why we have the consistent teaching from the early Church that Jesus is both human and divine, and that this means he had a human soul and a human will, such that these passages are not ignored but have been extensively incorporated into our understanding of who the person of Jesus Christ is?

For example, here’s a cursory response from Bishop Haydock’s New Testament commentary:

The Catena Aurea also has a lot of Patristic commentary on these passages:

Example: http://dhspriory.org/thomas/CAMatthew.htm#24

And the subject of Christ’s knowledge has received attention from Catholic theologians down to the present day. We also see it addressed in the Catechism:

471 Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.100

472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”,101 and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.102 This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.103

473 But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.104 "The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God."105 Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.106 The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.107

474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.108 What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.109

He is 100% human. And 100% God. That is the mystery of the hypostatic union. That should have been taught in Sunday school or catechism. Something is very wrong with the way how this is being taught.

If you believe Jesus is only human, you are treading heresy grounds or Jehovah Witness territory.

John’s Gospel is pretty explicit in some places.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made (John 1:1-3)

Compare the above to Isaiah:

“I am the Lord, who made all things,
who stretched out the heavens alone,
who spread out the earth—Who was with me?
(Isaiah 44:24)

“Who was with me?” is rhetorical. An alternate reading of the line reads, “who spread out the earth by myself.”

In this next passage, please pay close attention not only to what Jesus says, but how the Jews understand him. Here and in other places, it’s absolutely important to acknowledge how the Jews saw him and to interpret Jesus actions and sayings in a first-century Jewish theological context, and not as if they were stated in a vacuum.

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?” The Jews answered him, “We stone you for no good work but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.” (John 10:29-33)

And they all said, “Are you the Son of God, then?” And he said to them, “You say that I am.” And they said, “What further testimony do we need? We have heard it ourselves from his own lips.” (Luke 22:70-71)

And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “My son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak thus? It is blasphemy! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” (Mark 2:5-7)

Another thing to keep in mind going forward is just who Jesus directs others to follow. Jesus places an incredible importance on following him (Jesus), moreso than any mere human prophet would be expected to. And not just in John, but elsewhere. I have seen modern Jewish scholars object to Jesus’ teachings on the basis that Jesus was making himself the Torah, superior to the written Torah.

And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And he who sees me sees him who sent me. John 12:44-45

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6-7)

All that the Father has is mine; (John 16:15)

John’s gospel starts with a firm declaration of Jesus’ divinity. John 21 is an epilogue, perhaps appended later (though no less canonical). John 20 actually ends itself with a bit of a closer. Just before that, we reach what I think is the real apex of John’s gospel in Thomas’ declaration. The final words of the narrative which close in Chapter 20:

Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.” (John 20:28-29)

The gospel of John also has multiple “I AM” statements (ego eimi, sometimes translated into English as “I am he” to make sense in English speaking but which don’t capture as well the reference to Exodus 3:14

“And God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM’; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” (Exodus 3:14)

As therefore you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so live in him . . . For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily (Colossians 2:6,9)

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; (Colossians 1:15)

Have this mind among yourselves, which was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. (Philippians 2:5-7)

I think we’re well familiar with Paul referring to Jesus as “Lord” and I don’t need to cite every occurrence. There are interesting cases, though, where he takes passages directly referring to God and redirects them to Jesus.

Example 1:
And you call on the name of your god and I will call on the name of the Lord; and the God who answers by fire, he is God.” (1 Kings 18:24)

They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’” (Zechariah 13:9)

Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sos′thenes, To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours: (1 Corinthians 1:1-2)

Example 2:

And it shall come to pass that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be delivered; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls. (Joel 2:32)

…because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved. The scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. For, “every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:9-13)

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Revelation makes a similar play between the Old and the New:

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
“I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
(Isaiah 44:6)

Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast . . . When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. (Reveleation 1:12-13,17-18)

More from Revelation; God and the Lamb share a throne, and are referred to in the singular after the throne sharing is declared:

Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb . . . There shall no more be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall worship him; they shall see his face, and his name shall be on their foreheads. (Revelation 22: 1,3-4)

Jesus is also “Lord of the Sabbath”, a giver of law with authority (who speaks for himself, he doesn’t like Moses need to go up the mountain, get the law from God, and then deliver it. He simply teaches), and greater than the Temple, that is, greater than the place of God’s own dwelling on Earth, which should be absolutely absurd if there is no divinity in Christ. These last cannot be interpreted outside of a Jewish context. We risk being desensitized to how blasphemous these and other statements Christ makes would be if Christ was only a man.

And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes. (Matthew 7:28-29)

I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is lord of the sabbath.” (Matthew 12:6-8)

The story of Jesus calming the storm on the sea of Galilee is in all three synoptic gospels. Jesus’ divinity is implied in this, as in ancient Jewish understanding, it is God only who has mastery of wind and sea and all the things in it.

And when he got into the boat, his disciples followed him. And behold, there arose a great storm on the sea, so that the boat was being swamped by the waves; but he was asleep. And they went and woke him, saying, “Save, Lord; we are perishing.” And he said to them, “Why are you afraid, O men of little faith?” Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. And the men marveled, saying, “What sort of man is this, that even winds and sea obey him?” (Matthew 8:23-27)

There’s more, of course, but I hope this is a sufficient starting point. And these really need to be taken together as what they are all pointing towards.

Good grief, its never made sense and never will. Jesus is 100% this AND 100% that and what exactly does that mean? This is a typical philosophical farce dreamed up by the Magisterium and various philosophers to attempt to define the indefinable. People spout these definitions off they’ve been spoon fed in various schools without the slightest idea of what the statement actually means. Quite convenient to conjure up an answer to these confusing issues by calling them a divine “Mystery”. The problem is that Jesus by definition as the Son in the Godhead has to have an integration of some sort between his will as a Man and his will as a God in order to retain his identity as Christ on earth but how does this integration relate to the person in the Godhead we call the Son? This puts the Son in the Godhead in the precarious position of being the only person in the Godhead who has a will other than those other persons in the Godhead lest we might say that the Father has the nature of a man as well as the Holy Spirit. If the persons in the Godhead are all equal and coeternal each one would have to have the same coeternal will and natures found in the others and since Jesus presumable gained his nature as a man within time we cannot associate the gained nature of man with the divine nature of Jesus without destroying the identity of the person in the Godhead that we call the Son. This poses a problem. Is the integration of having the nature of a Man AND having the nature of God what we use to define who Jesus Christ was as the Son of the Father in the Godhead only on earth? If so then we must conclude that whatever the Person in the Godhead we define as the Son cannot be the same Person we define as Jesus on earth else we would have to say that the having the nature of a Man was not something gained but something eternal within the Godhead even before Mans creation. God himself would have to have the nature of a Man along side his own unique nature eternally. In this sense our natures would not be a created thing but an actual part of Gods eternal substance.

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