Was Jesus slain before the foundation of the world?


#1

I came across many Bible translations that said that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world, in Revelation 13:8. But I came across the New American Standard Bible, which reads- All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

Every other translation says it was Jesus who was slain before the foundation of everything, not the names being written in the book of life. I'm a little confused. First, I thought it was talking about satan being slain, since the war in Heaven happened before we were created.

Can anybody help me with this? Is this a translation error?


#2

Interesting. The older translation goes back at least to the Vulgate, which has qui occisus est (which was slain). The NAB and RSV-CE have gone for the modern translation. They were translated from MSS other than the ones St. Jerome worked from, so the Greek may have been different in those MSS, or ambiguous in one or both. Anyone know?

Bp. Challoner’s note in the Douay: Slain from the beginning. In the foreknowledge of God; and in as much as all mercy and grace, from the beginning, were given in view of his death and passion.


#3

JD,
I am guessing the translation you saw was something like this:

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

That's the King James translation. This translation has the same meaning as the NAB one, the only difference is where "from the foundation of the world" is put.


#4

This is a reference to the fact that because time is part of the created universe, God exists outside time, and therefore all points in time are alike and simultaneous to Him. Thus, even before the universe was created and time began, He could already see all points in time, including the death of His Son on the cross. Thus, "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world."


#5

Without looking at the Greek, the discrepancy is probably just that the adverbial phrase "from the foundation of the world" can be validly applied to either the verb "written" or the verb "slain." Both meanings are valid also. The KJV would be referring to the meaning highlighted by Challoner and the NAB to the predestination of the elect.


#6

Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world. Christ’s crucifixion is eternal, past and present. On a related note, the Mass re-presents the eternal Sacrifice. :slight_smile:


#7

It has been held by certain theologians that God's act of creation was the first sacrifice He made of Himself for all, since he did not need man, and thus at the outset was the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world," as one prayer then adds "dying in very truth, that we might live."


#8

Christ was "eternally" The Christ thus as the Scriptures say so clearly....
...From the point of Adam and Eve's sin Salvation was never, ever a matter of "IF" ( as the SDA's say ).
...It was only a matter of "WHEN".
...When would 'God' come and save.

Isaiah 35,4
Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; **he will come **AND save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.


#9

[quote="JDGaney, post:1, topic:323708"]
I came across many Bible translations that said that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world, in Revelation 13:8.

Can anybody help me with this? Is this a translation error?

[/quote]

Here's an example of the practice of giving an immediate date to a "sure thing" that would actually happen in the future.

God told Adam that "in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Adam did not actually die for many years after, but his death was confirmed, became a "sure thing", on the day he ate the forbidden fruit.

Before the foundation of the world, the Covenant of Redemption was made within the Trinity, that established God's plan of salvation ... that the Son would give up his life, would die for the redemption of mankind (cf. Titus 1:1-3). Of course, it did not actually happen before the foundation of the world, but it was confirmed and became a sure thing back then.


#10

Adam's spiritual relationship with God died the moment he sinned. However, his physical, bodily death did not occur until he was about 930 years old. All his progeny inherit and suffer his consequences for his sin.


#11

=JDGaney;10647677]I came across many Bible translations that said that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world, in Revelation 13:8. But I came across the New American Standard Bible, which reads- All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

Every other translation says it was Jesus who was slain before the foundation of everything, not the names being written in the book of life. I'm a little confused. First, I thought it was talking about satan being slain, since the war in Heaven happened before we were created.

Can anybody help me with this? Is this a translation error?

Verse 8: Rev. Haydocks' Catholic Commentary

"[8] Slain from the beginning: In the foreknowledge of God; and inasmuch as all mercy and grace, from the beginning, was given in view of his death and passion"


#12

Re: Revelations 13:8, the New American Bible (St. Joseph edition) reads:

"All the inhabitants will worship it, all whose names were not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life, which belongs to the Lamb who was slain."


#13

So, there is some real difficulty here when it comes to how we express God’s relationship to humanity before humanity fell into sin. The idea that God made a covenant with humanity before the fall, to me, raises many problems. It assumes that humanity was not created “good,” and that God needed to redeem humanity before sin occurred. God’s foreknowledge of humankind’s sin in no way mitigates the free choice given to all rational creatures (including the angels) not to sin.

You these posts helpful for further dialog on this matter among a Catholic (myself), a Protestant (George), and an Orthodox (Ben). They show the other issues at stake here, all of which revolve around why the Incarnation is important and what effects it has on humanity.

  1. conciliarpost.com/theology-spirituality/christmas-is-about-the-cross/
  2. conciliarpost.com/christian-traditions/eastern-orthodox/christmas-is-about-the-incarnation/

#14

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