The question is in the title.
Fulfilling the OT prophecies:
“Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.”
“I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.And the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.”
Judas was a bad guy.
God knew what he would do, because God knows everything. God inspired the prophets to speak about things that Judas would do.
The destiny of every single person ever created or yet to be created is to make it to Heaven. When we achieve that we are fulfilling our destiny.
If we go to Hell, we are not fulfilling our destiny, we are destroying it.
well, I think I have to agree with you here.
Is it that simple though? I mean, he was put on earth to do this no? It was predetermined? What would have happended had he not fulfilled his role?
This is a question that has bugged me ever since I became a Christian. Did Judas ever have a chance to get to heaven? He was essentially set on earth to betray Jesus. Not doing so would have made a whole set of prophets into a bunch of liars. Did Judas have the opportunity to remain loyal to Jesus or was he bound by fate and the will of God to do so? And, if he was bound by fate, what does that say about free will? And, if Judas was a lost cause from the beginning, that seems a little unfair to him. Surely God would not set a person on this earth who would never have the possibility of salvation.
Or was it his behavior after the betrayal that condemned him to Hell? Had he asked for Jesus’ forgiveness instead of killing himself, would he have been forgiven?
I love your titanic signature! A classic!
A good point indeed, at least he should have done that.
Judas was not sent to the Earth to betray Jesus. Judas decided that for himself. God gave us all free will. We are not bound by fate. That is not saying God did not know what Judas was going to do because God does know how we will live our lives. He knows what we are going to do before we do it but it is still our choice. If Judas would have asked Jesus for forgiveness, he would have been forgiven, but he didn’t.
If God knows how we will live our lives before we live them then we have no free will. Or rather - we have no self determination.
If God knows how we will live our lives before we live them then we have no free will. Or rather - we have no self determination
Ah, the old chestnut. . .
Remember, God does not exist ‘in time’. (He created it).
Therefore, God does not ‘see’ you being born, living, and dying ‘ahead of you’. He doesn’t create B, saying, “OK, you’ll be born in Iowa, get the measles at 6, first kiss at 13, major mortal sin at 19, and I plan for you to be an accountant for 41 years, have 3 children–2 boys and a girl–vote Democrat, and die of prostate cancer at 71. Have a nice day.”
God knows, if you will, all the details that we ‘will’ face, all the choices, and He KNOWS how we will respond, kind of in an eternal ‘now’. . .but He didn’t create us just to ‘accept’ or to ‘reject’ Him. He created us to give us the CHANCE TO CHOOSE, at any point in our lives, WHAT TO DO–good or evil. So we DO have free will, at all times. God knows the RESULT (in the end) of every one of OUR FREELY WILLED CHOICES --but HE did not force us into any single one of them.
he was not destined to sin, he had a free will choice, as does every sinner, to desist, and Jesus who knew his heart gave him several opportunities to change is course. Yes what he did was evil including his betrayal and suicide and we can only hope his action in refusing to accept the bribery money represents true contrition and that he repented and was forgiven before his suicidal act led to his death.
No one is destined to commit sin, we all have free will. The language use in thread title is completely non-Catholic and even non-Christian in understanding.
Which language use would you prefer? How would you have phrased the question?
Annie, the OP has ‘N/A’ by his religion according to his profile, so it is likely that he is either non-Catholic or non-Christian. . .or perhaps a ‘questioning Catholic’ who isn’t willing to ‘claim’ something unless he fully ‘accepts’ all about it and is trying to find that out on these fora. . .
Not true. God knows what we’re going to do, but He is not the author of those actions.
Judas was not destined to betray Jesus any more than Mary was forced to be the the Mother of God. God knew what both would do but both individuals also had free will. Mary could have siad no to God’s will and Judas could have chosen to not betray Jesus. Had either of these two things happened God’s plan would have been don through a different method.
Finally, the issue with Judas is not so much that he betrayed Jesue but that he despaired and killed himself instead of seeking forgiveness.
Because God has foreknowledge of all things doesn’t mean He causes all things to happen. God does not/will not “predestine” someone to sin. It’s completely against God’s nature.
God knew from all eternity that Adam would eat the apple and Judas would betray Jesus with a kiss and Jesus would die on a Cross. The OT prophets, inspired by the Holy Spirit, spoke of those events foreseen by the eye of God.
But Judas had free will, or Jesus would not have said “Woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed… It would be better for him had he never been born.”
The same goes for the Sanhedrin, King Herod, and Pontius Pilate. All are guilty for their part in putting an innocent man to death and thus they will be held accountable. They weren’t fulfilling some ancient prophecy like cosmic puppets on a string. Plain and simple… they sinned.
You do realize that “both” is a perfectly plausible response?
Hitler was a bad guy doomed to die in that bunker.
Jesus answered them
Have not I chosen you twelve
and one of you is a devil
72 Now he meant Judas Iscariot
Like “Ladylinguist” the Judas story has always fascinated me and I have asked myself the questions that have been raised in the thread and some more. I hope this thread may help me answer some for them. The postings are certainly raising more for me especially the difference between our response not being predetermined but God knowing what it will be.
I always found difficut to accept the theory that Judas was put on this earth to betray Jesus, as its corollary is that if he had done anything else, then he would not have been doing God’s will for him and so he would be doubly dammed – dammed if he did and dammed if he didn’t.
I have also wondered whether the greed he was accused of was the reason for betraying Jesus. Or did he think his actions would force the High Priest to acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah? Was he trying to force Jesus to say he was the Messiah and lead a rebellion against Rome? Was despair at Jesus’ death the reason for his suicide or was it shame he had misunderstood so badly?
I think that we can’t answer the question that is the basis of this thread without considering all the possible reasons for Judas’ actions from The Last Supper to his suicide. Why he did what he did may not exonerate his action it may make it more comprehensible and also make he didn’t ask for forgiveness more comprehensible.