Was Novus Ordo a good idea


#1

con sider this propchecy given to Marie-Julie Jahenny the stigmatist-

On November 27, 1902 (Ed. note: The seventy-second anniversary of the Miraculous Medal Apparition [November 27, 1830]) and on May 10, 1904, Our Lord warned of the new liturgy which would one day be instituted:

"I give you a warning. The disciples who are not of My Gospel are now working hard to remake according to their ideas, and under the influence of the enemy of souls, a Mass that contains words which are odious in My Sight. When the fatal hour arrives where the faith of my priest is put to the test, it will be these texts that will be celebrated, in this second period. “The first period is the one of My Priesthood, existing since Me. The second is the one of the persecution, when the enemies of the Faith and of Holy Religion will impose their formulas in the book of the second celebration. Many of My holy priests will refuse this book, sealed with the words of the abyss. Unfortunately, amongst them are those who will accept it.”

To me this sounds like God warning us of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo…


#2

I’d give her some credit if her apparitions were actually approved by the church.

Obviously, if it’s referring to the contemporary rite of the Mass, then it’s a diabolical apparition. If the Popes and the Chruch approved the Mass, then the matter is closed.

rich


#3

P.S. As I asked in another thread, I have yet to see an official Catholic document referring to the contemporary rite as the Novus Ordo.

Have you seen one?


#4

first of all, why would it be considered diabolical if it was referring to that? and since when is everything the church does absolutely free of error? i know that we have to follow the church in order to be catholics but we as mortals are fallible and the church has made bad decisions before. Considering Marie-Julie Jahenny was a stigmatist with all the wounds of Christ, i think her prophecies should be given consideration. She also predicted the 2 world wars and for the last years of her life she lived on the eaucharist alone.( she was observed by doctors and she never even went to the bathroom) If you consider the disorder the Church is in now i think i put more trust in her words than those of the people who instituted the new mass.


#5

Maybe it’s talking about dissident priests who use inclusive language and language that denies the Real Presence? (like “this is the bread of life” instead of “this is my body”).


#6

I didn’t vote. I do care, and…the answer is yes and no.

Changing the language to include English has its useful points.

I don’t think the English Mass itself is out of order…but the abuses that arose out of it are almost evil.

The changing and flatening of the language

The change making the Mass a horizontal focus rather than a vertical one

The removal of altar rails, kneelers, tabernacles, crucifixes, etc.

…just to name a few.


#7

well, Mycroft, as an infallible church, I’d say the Catholic Church promulgating a heretical Mass is grounds for nullification of the charism of infallibility.

If the church is a valid authority, then I’d rest my eternal soul on that rather than an unapproved visionary. I don’t care how “holy” she appeared to be. If she is contradicting Christ’s church, then she’s not of Christ. If this contemporary form of the Mass (I still don’t have an answer for the “Novus Ordo” tag) is “of the abyss” then the church is leading souls astray and we should abandon the Magisterium and go with this UNAPPROVED lady who saw a vision, so she says.


#8

What Windmill said. PLUS when I read

Many of My holy priests will refuse this book, sealed with the words of the abyss

I see the word “many” and think of a majority and since darn near every priest I know of doesn’t have a problem with it, it seems like maybe this has yet to come and refers to something else in the future?


#9

We all know that the liturgical changes and experimentation that began to happen after the second Vatican council opened the gates wide for the countless abuses that we are seeing today. I’m loyal to the Church and whatever it decides, but I do not think Vatican II was a good idea at all if it has led to the misinterpretations we see in parishes all over this country. Now, you can go to Mass in three different churches and it feels like three different religions. That is not Catholic unity.


#10

novus ordo means new order, which is exactly what the new mass is so i dont know what your problem with the name is. many doesnt have to mean the majority. and by the way dandelion wine did you get your name from the ray bradbury book?

by the wayi will always follow the church and its decisions but all im saying is that the poeple in the church can make mistakes and i think a lot of things should be taken into consideration


#11

dude,

I’m in a Gregorian Chant group. “Novus Ordo” is a pretty basic translation. I’m not asking for a translation. I’m attempting to illustrate that this is not the official name for the contemporary form of the Mass, but, rather, a slur promoted by Tridentine-devotees to insinuate that the current form is some huge novelty.

rich


#12

dude,

i dont care what you think about it. its an accurate name for something thats basically a new mass. (new order, makes sense see?) and it is a new mass, i even found a quote by one of the priests involved in its creation that it was totally different from the roman rite. and stop whining about it being a “slur”


#13

Mycroft,

Don’t you see a pattern here? Relying on an unapproved “visionary”. Using unapproved labels to demean the current form of the timeless Mass. And calling on some priest, not the magestrium, to substantiate your label.

C’mon, bro.

I apologize for the abruptness in above posts. I am gettin over the flu.

I just am surprised that you are resting your arguments on insinuations rather than solid data.


#14

k the thing is i really dont care about the label i was just using the name that ive heard. to me it doesnt seem like it makes any difference, its pretty much the same as saying the new mass. but oh well. all i was saying in the first place is that i think people should take a look at some of this kinda stuff instead of just ignoring it all. k bra?


#15

k

I, too, am trying to make you think.


#16

Was the promulgation of the current Mass a good idea?

Who am I to judge the wisdom of the Church?


#17

is the use of the word “dude” a good idea?? (wink, wink)

the wisdom of the church can be ignored by men, and thusly, we have a perfectly valid Mass (said in english) screwed up by liberals.


#18

The Mass at my parish here is in English and I love it. It’s consistent with the English translations of the Mass in my Latin missal that goes with me, so unless you guys are bent about some priests messing it up, which as I understand it, has been dealt with officially, (Though as with most things the changes take time), then I see no problems. Rebellious priests and bishops should be dealt with accordingly and if they’re way outta line we should confront them in love, then report 'em up the chain of command until it gets fixed. I thank God at every Mass for the parish that I’m in and the priests that we have when I hear so much grief (like this) from others. I remember you all in my every prayer. Remain faithful, humble, and obedient and for the love of God pray for all our clergy and religious and for more vocations by faithful souls.
Pax vobiscum,

P.S. to Mycroft: Is you handle a nod to Sherlock’s brother?


#19

this is precisely why we as the church don’t place our confidence for matters of teaching in personal revelation.

yes, novus ordo is a good idea. it’s the teaching of our church, which i trust.

whatever ‘the spirits’ might say.


#20

I’ve heard tell that a pope or popes (I cannot cite which one it was, I’m afraid) said that Satan can decieve through things such as incorruptibility of dead bodies (one of the things they look for in saints’ causes). Could he not do the same by speciously replicating the Stigmata?


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