Was Russia Ever Really Consecrated to the Virgin Mary, As She Had Requested?


#1

A friend of mine owns a Catholic bookstore and gave me a box of books and pamphlets she had laying around her store.

Last night while going through some of this stuff, I came across a pamphlet from a group called “The Fatima Network” it was a compilation of 10 questions regarding the request of the Virgin Mary (to three little shephard children at Fatima) that Russia be consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart, but that this consecration never “really” took place. According to this organization, this Consecration to the Blessed Virgin was never done “correctly” back in 1984.

According to the seer Lucia, the Blessed Virgin said this in a vision back in 1917:
**“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order that in union with him and at the same time, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart.” **

This organization claims that because this had never been executed as the Blessed Virgin requested, that this is the reason for the world’s immorality and rampant evil - and that since the “alledged” consecration, only 300,000 Russians have converted to Catholicism in 16 years.

They go on to say that the fall of Communism in Russia had no impact at all since Catholicism is widely persecuted in Russia and that Islam, Buddhist, Judaism, and other religions are widely accepted. The organization recounts the fact that when the Virgin Mary asked for Mexico to be consecrated to Her - 8 million people converted in 9 years and that this is the proof that Russia had never been consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart as She requested.

This had me very upset all night. I do not understand why the Pope and Bishops would not consecrate Russia to the Virgin Mary as She requested. And why would it take the Church so long to do it afterall? The visions were in 1917. Why would the Pope finally do it, rather shabbily in 1984?

Can anyone set my heart at ease with this one? I’m very upset about it - especially with terrorism on the brink of trying to destroy the world and with the Virgin Mary prophesying that many “nations will be annililated” if this consecration is not carried out…


#2

[quote=CindyGia]A friend of mine owns a Catholic bookstore and gave me a box of books and pamphlets she had laying around her store.

Last night while going through some of this stuff, I came across a pamphlet from a group called “The Fatima Network” it was a compilation of 10 questions regarding the request of the Virgin Mary (to three little shephard children at Fatima) that Russia be consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart, but that this consecration never “really” took place. According to this organization, this Consecration to the Blessed Virgin was never done “correctly” back in 1984.

According to the seer Lucia, the Blessed Virgin said this in a vision back in 1917:
**“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order that in union with him and at the same time, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart.” **

This organization claims that because this had never been executed as the Blessed Virgin requested, that this is the reason for the world’s immorality and rampant evil - and that since the “alledged” consecration, only 300,000 Russians have converted to Catholicism in 16 years.

They go on to say that the fall of Communism in Russia had no impact at all since Catholicism is widely persecuted in Russia and that Islam, Buddhist, Judaism, and other religions are widely accepted. The organization recounts the fact that when the Virgin Mary asked for Mexico to be consecrated to Her - 8 million people converted in 9 years and that this is the proof that Russia had never been consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart as She requested.

This had me very upset all night. I do not understand why the Pope and Bishops would not consecrate Russia to the Virgin Mary as She requested. And why would it take the Church so long to do it afterall? The visions were in 1917. Why would the Pope finally do it, rather shabbily in 1984?

Can anyone set my heart at ease with this one? I’m very upset about it - especially with terrorism on the brink of trying to destroy the world and with the Virgin Mary prophesying that many “nations will be annililated” if this consecration is not carried out…
[/quote]

You are at a crossroads here. I’m just betting you are reading something from Fr. Gruner’s organization. Fr. Gruner is a suspended priest. The Vatican and Sister Lucia have both said that the consecrations were done on JPII’s second attempt to do it. You can now choose to accept the word of the Vatican or you can accept the word of the suspended priest and company. I think all you will find is that the latter only has conspiracy theories to “prove” their claims. They will tell you everything from Russia isn’t consecrated to Fr. Gruner isn’t really suspended. You might also want to search the forums. Someone made and interesting post recently on all of the things that have happened in Russia sincet he consecration.


#3

[quote=bear06] You might also want to search the forums. Someone made and interesting post recently on all of the things that have happened in Russia sincet he consecration.
[/quote]

Thanks! Any ideas what word I should use to do this search?


#4

Russia was consencrated…Lucia confirmed it.
I’ll take her word over a hostile, conspiracy theorist, suspended priest any day.


#5

[quote=Lorarose]Russia was consencrated…Lucia confirmed it.
I’ll take her word over a hostile, conspiracy theorist, suspended priest any day.
[/quote]

I think Sungenis is pushing the idea that it wasn’t consecrated, isn’t he?


#6

Your question deserves more - much more - response that what you have received.

Please do a search on Fatima… you will find many threads that you can read. Yes, you will read opposing views… like will you believe the Vatican or a suspect priest. I don’t think you will read of whether you should accept the request of Mary Herself (explicit direction), … some suspect reports from Vatican officials.

Also, you will find nothing where JPII himself, declares he has fulfilled what other popes did not.

All this is just interesting… not necessary for your salvation. Spend as much time praying as you do researching, and you will be fine.


#7

Letter of Sister Lucia Santos
To
Fr. Robert J. Fox.
(Reproduced with written permission obtained from Rev. Fr. Robert J. Fox on March 13, 2001.)

J.+ M.
Pax Christi

Rev . do Sr. P. Robert J. Fox

Recebi a sua carta e venho responder á sua pergunta: “Se a Consagração feita por João Paulo II, em 25 de Março de 1984, em união com todos os Bispos do mundo, cumpriu as codições para a coversão da Russia, segundo o pedido de Nossa Senhora em Tuy a 13 de Junho de 1929.”? Sim, cumpriu, e desde aí, eu tenho dito que está feita.

E digo que não é nenhuma outra pessoa que responde por mim, sou eu quem recebe a correspondência, abre as cartas e responde.

Em união de orações

Coimbra, 3-VII-l99O

Irmã Lúcia

(signature)

TRANSLATION
J.+ M.
The Peace of Christ

**Rev. Father Robert J. Fox

I come to answer your question, “If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?” Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made.**

And I say that no other person responds for me, it is I who receive and open all letters and respond to them.

Source


#8

[quote=Lorarose]Russia was consencrated…Lucia confirmed it.
I’ll take her word over a hostile, conspiracy theorist, suspended priest any day.
[/quote]

I don’t understand why, if Russia was consecrated, would a priest take the efforts to start an entire organization to make the claim that the consecration had never been carried out as requested. This organization claims that “some type” of consecration took place back in 1984, but not as the Virgin Mary had requested in a public ceremoney with all the Bishops of the world.


#9

[quote=Lazerlike42]I think Sungenis is pushing the idea that it wasn’t consecrated, isn’t he?
[/quote]

bad choice of words, I think. He doesn’t “push” anything. His writings and his research are factual, with clear references, and no hidden innuendos.


#10

[quote=CindyGia]I don’t understand why, if Russia was consecrated, would a priest take the efforts to start an entire organization to make the claim that the consecration had never been carried out as requested. This organization claims that “some type” of consecration took place back in 1984, but not as the Virgin Mary had requested in a public ceremoney with all the Bishops of the world.
[/quote]

you have a correct understanding of the delema


#11

[quote=Eireann]Letter of Sister Lucia Santos
To
Fr. Robert J. Fox.
(Reproduced with written permission obtained from Rev. Fr. Robert J. Fox on March 13, 2001.)

J.+ M.
Pax Christi

Rev . do Sr. P. Robert J. Fox

Recebi a sua carta e venho responder á sua pergunta: “Se a Consagração feita por João Paulo II, em 25 de Março de 1984, em união com todos os Bispos do mundo, cumpriu as codições para a coversão da Russia, segundo o pedido de Nossa Senhora em Tuy a 13 de Junho de 1929.”? Sim, cumpriu, e desde aí, eu tenho dito que está feita.

E digo que não é nenhuma outra pessoa que responde por mim, sou eu quem recebe a correspondência, abre as cartas e responde.

Em união de orações

Coimbra, 3-VII-l99O

Irmã Lúcia

(signature)

TRANSLATION
J.+ M.
The Peace of Christ

**Rev. Father Robert J. Fox

I come to answer your question, “If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?” Yes,** it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made.

And I say that no other person responds for me, it is I who receive and open all letters and respond to them.

Source
[/quote]

Oh thank goodness! Thank you so very much!
I looked into the website that was on this pamphlet, and one of the pages was titled: “In Defense of Father Gruner”

Is this guy excommunicated from the Church? I suppose now it makes sense why he would start an organization.


#12

[quote=CindyGia]Oh thank goodness! Thank you so very much!
I looked into the website that was on this pamphlet, and one of the pages was titled: “In Defense of Father Gruner”

Is this guy excommunicated from the Church? I suppose now it makes sense why he would start an organization.
[/quote]

which came first?

his “problems” with individuals in the Church or

his “concern” with the consecration??

Which is a “result” or “consequence” of the other?? That might cause you to wonder


#13

“I don’t understand why, if Russia was consecrated, would a priest take the efforts to start a whole organization to say that this consecration had never been carried out as requested. The organization claims that some type of consecration took place back in 1984, but not as the Virgin Mary requested with all the Bishops of the world.”

I don’t know why a catholic archibishop would get married in a Moony ceremony either.
Fr. Gruner has accused JPII of ridiculous, outrageous things.
I don’t know why he continues to insist on doing what he does.
He never received confirmation or support from Lucia.
Lucia supported the pope, and Fr. Gruner now finds himself in the position of being suspended.

You will hear many outrageous conspiracy theories about this. Think about JPII - the kind of person he was - and take some time to reflect on who has more credibility.

Fortunately I just noticed a flyer posted on our Church’s bulletin board requesting that people please refrain from distributing Fr. Gruner’s materials in the lobby citing his status of suspension and his inflammatory accusations against our pope.


#14

This is an excellant point.

Now, do we have verifiable declaration from JPII that he performed as Our Lady requested?


#15

From the Vatican…

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html


#16

[quote=MrS]This is an excellant point.

Now, do we have verifiable declaration from JPII that he performed as Our Lady requested?
[/quote]

**Uh-oh. I now get the feeling on this thread that there is opposition regarding the [fact of] consecration of Russia to Our Lady. What scares me about all this is the part that seemed to ring true mentioned in that pamphlet; i.e. growing immorality and evil in the world because the consecration had never been carried out.

Of course I will always believe and obey anything handed down by the Pope, and if Lucia herself said the consecration had been done, why would that be questioned? Right? Why would the visionary make such a statement if it in fact had not been carried out as the Blessed Virgin requested?**


#17

[quote=CindyGia]**Uh-oh. I now get the feeling that there is opposition regarding the consecration of Russia to Our Lady. What scares me about all this is the parts that seemed to ring true mentioned in that pamphlet; i.e. growing immorality and evil in the world.

Of course I will always believe and obey anything handed down by the Pope, and if Lucia herself said the consecration had been done, why would that be questioned? Right? Why would the visionary make such a statement if it in fact had not been carried out as the Blessed Virgin requested?**
[/quote]

in her own words… the '84 Consecration was accepted in heaven. Of course it was… any holy consecration by a pope would be accepted in heaven.

As for the interpretations/translations of her “letters”… well that is debated till we all have headaches.

So, perhaps the fact that JPII never confirmed … hhmmmmhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_12.gifyou would think he might have ended the controversy.


#18

Of course I will always believe and obey anything handed down by the Pope, and if Lucia herself said the consecration had been done, why would that be questioned? Right? Why would the visionary make such a statement if it in fact had not been carried out as the Blessed Virgin requested?

Exactly. And if she had come and said "no…it hasn’t been done"
Why would JPII engage in a massive coverup? That is not like him at all -especially considering his deep devotion to the Blessed Mother.

Some people have gone so far as to turning these misguided beliefs into a religion of its own. They have come to deny the authority of the pope and the magisterium, and have adopted a schismatic mentality.


#19

[quote=Lorarose]Exactly. And if she had come and said "no…it hasn’t been done"
Why would JPII engage in a massive coverup? That is not like him at all -especially considering his deep devotion to the Blessed Mother.

Some people have gone so far as to turning these misguided beliefs into a religion of its own. They have come to deny the authority of the pope and the magisterium, and have adopted a schismatic mentality.
[/quote]

I have another question now…

Why did it take the church almost 70 years to carry out the consecration? After the miracle of the sun - I would think that the consecration should have been completed right fast - no?


#20

[quote=CindyGia]I have another question now…

Why did it take the church almost 70 years to carry out the consecration? After the miracle of the sun - I would think that the consecration should have been completed right fast - no?
[/quote]

all good questions… you really should search the other threads, and read what so many have taken much time to compile.

Perhaps Benedict XVI will put the controversy to rest… after all, he has choosen the name last used at the time of Fatima.


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