Was St. Augustine a Catholic?


#21

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/a-tiptoe-through-tulip

Are you referring to this article? I am unfamiliar with the Molinist position.


#22

Yes, that’s the article.

Molinsm >>>>>

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/molinism


#23

Hmm, I think that I would agree more with Thomism, than Molinism.

But you say that the Catholic Church is teaching Molinism? Why?

What are your thoughts?


#24

He was Saint, Doctor, and Bishop of the Catholic Church. Specifically He was Bishop of Hippo in N. Africa

Showing they obviously didn’t know Augustine.

Yes

His writings were quite voluminous.

But here is a sample (excerpt) but the context is included

Augustine ~395 Saint , Doctor, and Bishop of the Catholic Church.

“There are many other things that most justly keep me in her [i.e. the Catholic Church’s] bosom. . . . The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection, gave it in charge to feed His sheep, down to the present episcopate. And so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.”
Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental (ch 4 v5)

To
#1, the answer would be if they claimed him they’d be Catholic. They couldn’t remain Protestant.

#2, The link I posted for you was Augustine’s response to against Manichaeus. That fellow was a heretic in Augustine’s day. Fast forward in time, Protestantism is one of https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-great-heresies in history. Augustine would also write against Protestantism as well… in all it’s forms

They can try but they can’t.


#25

Slam Dunk, Steve-b! Thank you.


#26

I don’t do monster posts, and I don’t want to misquote. So you’ll just have to read the Catechism.


#27

Ok, thanks. Will do!


#28

Read his Confessions.
It’s really a stretch to claim he wasn’t Catholic. The whole of his life is a story of becoming obedient to the Church.


#29

I don’t know which protestant site I read this but they were claiming that he recanted the Church later in life. I doubt that it’s true.


#30

I would have to ask for proof of that. They won’t find it.


#31

You’re welcome. Happy to help :sunglasses:


#32

So there is room to be a Thomist or a Molinist within the Catholic Church, you don’t have to be one or the other?

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/a-tiptoe-through-tulip

What is this third position? I am actually intrigued by the notion that there is an Augustinian view the Church accepts and that it’s based off the work of St. Augustine (I assume).


#33

There was actually a huge row between the Thomists and the Molinists back in the 1600s: The Pope at the time settled it by saying the Church refused to choose between them and both sides were forbidden from accusing the other of heresy


#34

And what of the Augustinian school? How does this contrast between the other two?

That’s pretty cool that the Church allows for this freedom of thought. Just studying it for a little makes you think that it’s essentially close to the Armenian v. Calvinist split among protestants. I mean they’re having to go through all the stuff the Catholics already went through and essentially resolved, no?


#35

St Augustine is old and revered and famous enough that most within the Christian sphere default towards loving him.

It’s kind of like Abraham Lincoln in US history. Few people will openly admit to disliking the man.

This is I 100% guarantee: if Christians read all of his writings, many would find things they don’t agree with.


#36

I think one needs to look at Augustine in the same light as we would any theologian. We evaluate what they say in light of the scriptures.


#37

Maybe the Prots do, as Catholics we evaluate what they say in light of Scripture-Tradition-Magisterium.


#38

We do too, we just don’t hold them all on an equal footing.


#39

Catholics do.


#40

I am not arguing with you. I am aware of this.


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