we men have abdicated our responsibility

the ideal is for the man to work as hard as he must to earn a living and to allow his wife have children and stay home with them. that’s how it is supposed to be.

but over the past several decades, we men have gotten soft. we can blame it on feminism if we want, but we are to blame.

these days, a woman who wants only to be a wife and mother–as God intended–is out of luck. women today must at a minimum earn a college degree (incurring huge debt in the process) before they are even eligible to have a husband. then, they must spend many years, if not their entire lives, working outside the home. if men would do what they are supposed to do, this would not be necessary.

at mass recently, our priest gave a children’s homily. he asked the kids, “what do you want to be when you grow up?” as i listened to the girls talk about being doctors and lawyers, i wondered, “what if my daughter wants to be a wife and mother? is that possible anymore?”

sadly, it’s really not an option. we men have made women a bad bargain and women have accepted it. it goes like this:

we men will allow you women to work outside the home. we don’t want to do whatever it takes to financially support you. we want you to financially support us as well. trust us, you’ll be happy.

the result is, women have far fewer kids than women had in previous generations. our families are small. we are not being fruitful and multiplying, as God commanded.

feminism is not to blame. we men are to blame. it’s a messed up situation.

It may hearten you to know that in one of my classes, the entire Y-chromosome group (me and two other guys, called the Y’s because our teacher refers to us by our chromosome pairs) did say that we saw it as our duty to be the breadwinners (although we are okay with women working if they want).

I don’t know if there is anybody to blame. Women were working also before only not in the office but on the field with her husband or making clothes, washing clothes and many other jobs.

About the University why should’t a woman have a degree? Everybody should have a qualification, this is my oppinion. It is very nice to stay at home with your children. it is nice for a husband to be the breadwinner. However think of a situation when a woman with small children is left alone by some tragic circumstance. What will she do then if she has no qualification and if she never worked anywhere?

Also in my country the economical situation does not allow me to stay home with my children more then the 2 years after birth. We would never manage without 2 paycheks.

My parents were also working because they coudn’t afford to raise us from one paycheck. I never miss affection or attention because of this.

Both men and women have suffered a profound loss in this transformation of culture. Men have lost their true calling to be our domestic priests. They have no authority by which to guide their families. They have less respect from their families. Respect for men is at an all time low in our society now, and fathers especially are demeaned. Men lose their haven, their place of comfort and ease, where they can be cossetted and catered to. Home becomes just another place to work.

Women have lost their authority, too. We used to have the Herculean task of purifying the offerings given at the domestic table. We made sure that the meal was prepared as well as the vessels and the participants. Now there is no table. I have a hard time explaining to 20 somethings why people need to eat together at all. Women lost their connection to each other, the back of the fence chats that established standards and assisted so much in child rearing. And they lost their creative time too, as all of the day is swallowed up in work.

Children have lost most of all. Children have lost their immediate access to the person who loves them beyond life. They lost the sense of having a center to their existence. Those placed in day care at an early age grow up as savages. There is no one to correct their behavior with moral force. Consequences for bad behavior are no more onerous than a time out. Children have lost their freedom to explore their environment, as there is no one home to watch them, even in their own yard. In our culture children learn that money is the solution to the smallest of life’s challenges. If you lose a shoe, don’t bother looking for it, don’t waste the time, just buy a new pair. Children have lost their haven as well. They cannot bring a friend home since there is no one there to supervise them. So social activities must take place at a mall or movie or school. So unless a child has money he can’t have friends.

People. Is it really worth all this in order to have more “things?”

My best attempt at an analogy would be a flow of liquid into a series of 2 cups. Cup #1 is the family cup. Cup #2 is the materialism cup. It is our Duty to fill the family cup first. Once the family cup is full, then we can start filling the materialism cup. Much of society has lost sight of this distinction thanks to the consumerism of feelgood instant gratification messages present in the media. It is our Duty as parents to be vigilant that we are not filling cup #2 before cup #1. Otherwise, families, true love, and the greater society will continue to pay the price.

The other day, my wife and I were discussing the worst vices of the genders. I voted for Lust of hotties as men’s. She voted for consumerism for women. It’s funny how men go to work to afford money for consumerism for their wives, then the wife wants to dress like the hottie that the man lusts for, then it can be carried to extremes and we get off track. Madonna has done incredible damage with her song “Material Girl.” The message is “I’ll be with you if you spend money on me.” It’s informal prostitution. Just because no “exact” dollar amount has been formalized in the transaction, it doesn’t change the point. Too many many have become informal pimps and too many women have become informal prostitutes at the expense of True Love and Family. We Need to promote Awareness and real Change. :wink:

what a great post.

Whose ideal is this? Not the Catholic Church’s. The Church has no such teaching. Your guilt or self recrimination is misplaced.

Wow, all I can say is this is very far from reality and from Church teaching.

Women staying at home to raise kids and NOT working is a very recent cultural phenomenon!

After the industrial revolution, women staying at home to be a housewife was promoted as an ideal among the upper-classes who could afford such a life. Among such societies many men didn’t work either, and instead had an income through the ownership of land/being a landlord.

Throughout history, women contributed almost as much money to the household as men did, e.g. working on the farm (planting seeds, weeding) while the men did the heavier jobs (plowing, etc). Even in factories, women were a common demographic - as were children.

So saying that there has been a massive change is a fallacy.

Site your source for this.

i’m all for women being eductated, but to what end?

we now have more women than men in college. nowadays, women think career first and marriage and kids second. our birth rates in the west are too low. we need to fundamentally re-think what our objectives should be. if our objective is to have and raise children, the current situation is counterproductive.

i don’t need a church to tell me what is obvious. the female body is designed to have kids–lots of them. it is also designed to raise kids. that doesn’t happen much in today’s culture.

btw, i think our church does implicitly affirm what i am saying. i.e., if a married woman is not contracepting, then she naturally will get pregnant and have lots of kids. to a large extent, this will keep her from working outside the home.

Women must be educated in case 1) they never get married 2) their husband becomes unemployed for various reasons and 3) in case husband dies at an early age.

So, every woman should have some sort of education and should a substantial life insurance policy on her husband!

And lots of women died in childbirth, and they suffered abuse at the hands of their husbands, because it was not talked about, and they put up with husband sleeping around, because it was not talked about, and they DID have kids out of wedlock.

The idealized utopian view you have of the earlier generations did not exist.

The things I mentioned in my paragraph quoted by you happened before the invention of artificial contraception, feminism, and this “abdication” you’re talking about. I’m talking about medieval/industrial revolution eras. Re-read my post again please.

We are not working to have more things. Many of the people i know work to have the necessary basic things for their children:food, clothes, pampers, medical care, rent, loan for house, water, electricity etc. In an ideal world you would be able to stay with your child until he goes to school and even more and go back to work after he is big enough if you want. However the real world obliges you to help your husband.

What is “ideal” depends on the person. I know some families don’t think it’s worth educating a woman - I mean, I know these families. And I know some women think they don’t need an education, and that their sole purpose in life is to get married, be kept by this man, and raise his children, clean his house, do all the chores, etc. I do know such women, and that’s exactly what they do.

But the fact is, women do have a choice, and if a woman wants only to make it to the required 11th grade, drop out, not get an education, get married and stay home while her husband fulfills his dreams as whatever he does, women can still do that. Women do have choices, and I’ve seen them choose to drop out of school and stay home and maintain the home as their only vocation. I’m sure there are men out there that think women’s only place is in the home, and they can’t be that hard to find, as I know several girls who did just that.

But it would be horrible for me to be prevented from going to school and earning a degree. It would be Hell on earth for me to be prevented from working and fulfilling my dreams by making use of that education. Life wouldn’t be worth living if I was oppressed and treated to horribly as to be kept ignorant by not allowing me to go to school and learn, and earn a degree, and have the opportunity to work outside the home, but rather, forced to remain at home. I can’t even imagine living in such a world. I pity women of the past who had no choices, and instead, had their entire lifestyle forced upon them by the men in their lives, by virtue of the fact that they could do nothing else. What a sad world that was.

I am so grateful to God for the opportunities I have had. I am Blessed by God in my life for so many things. I can do whatever I desire, whether it’s to get married, have children and work outside the home; or to get married, have children, and not work outside the home and instead run the household, or to not get married at all. It would be a living nightmare for me to have to submit to a marriage and a life confined at home just because I wasn’t allowed to do anything else.

I don’t think men “allowed” women to become educated and get jobs outside the home. It was bound to happen. It was only a matter of time before women decided they were worth more, and deserved more, and bucked up to make it happen. You can’t keep slaves slaves forever - they eventually find freedom and make their own dreams come true. A walk through time shows us this.

I tend to agree with 1ke.

Besides that I feel the overall view on this thread is very negative… like: look at the big bad world and all the damage it has done.

I grew up in a household with parents that were both working outside the home. My mother wanted to have a university degree since she was a little girl because she is passionately interested in German culture and linguistics. She was a great and loved teacher and Im proud of her.
I always felt her to be there for me when I needed her, and both my parents were huge role models for me in that

  • they both had interests and good jobs that made them happy people. They are both intelligent, well educated and updated people. They often talk about how happy and blessed they are.
  • We, the children, grew up with a positive view on life, on democracy, and on all the opportunities we now have, which they didn’t have two generations back.
  • People were treated as friends and the world was seen not as perfect, but as a place worth fighting for. My parents used alot of time with idealistic work, helping all sorts of people, and teaching us good values and how to relate healthy to people and test systems.

I don’t like the opening post which indicates that men have more responsibility than women. Its not so. Men and women are equally to be praised and critizised for the good things and bad situations which the world finds itself in today.
As I woman I say, you need not pity me and wish to rescue me back to another age . I am happy to live today.

Strip a person of her responsibility and you also strip her of her equality and humanity.

i pity the woman of today who wants to get married, have lots of kids, raise them, and have her husband support her. that woman is very, very rare today. today’s woman is compelled by society to go to college and have a career. if she is extremely lucky, she will meet a man who at some point will allow her to quit her job and stay at home with the kids. again, it is the rare woman today who finds such a man. plus, the woman who is fortunate enough to find such a man must first incur tens of thousands of dollars in college debt.

My source is direct observation and knowledge of the law. Day care workers are not allowed to correct by means of value statements: That is wrong. The most they can do is state: we don’t do that. Most parents instruct the day care workers to not let the kids take a nap so that they will sleep when they get home. Any school teacher will tell you how poorly developed day care kids are in manners, self control and attention span.

A life lived without moral boundaries is by definition savagery. Or paganism if you prefer. It is a life bound by the rule of the pack.

Captain Mike, thanks for your kind word. I am afraid you touched a nerve in your post. I was a latchkey kid back in the day when they were rare. We children had no one to correct our natural selfishness. To this day my brothers are not on speaking terms.

My late husband and I made sacrifices to ensure that our four children were not latchkey kids. Over and over my heart was wrung by the aimlessness and insecurity of our kids friends. This insecurity was a daily reminder of how I felt growing up. Today we take it for granted that children and especially teens are neurotic to some extent, that unhappiness and destructive self doubt is a necessary stage of growing up. It is not.

Today I am a widow and still poor but confident that I did the best I could at my life’s hardest challenge: raising my children to be resilient, responsible, respectable people.

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