Wedding Question


#1

If someone gets married in a Catholic ceremony and then flies to Vegas and has a civil wedding at a hotel what happens? I assume as long as it's not a religious ceremony they aren't in any trouble? What can the Church do if you have a Catholic ceremony first?

I'm not asking if they can, I'm asking what happens if they do.

Thanks.


#2

[quote="Irishgal49, post:1, topic:293069"]
If someone gets married in a Catholic ceremony and then flies to Vegas and has a civil wedding at a hotel what happens? I assume as long as it's not a religious ceremony they aren't in any trouble? What can the Church do if you have a Catholic ceremony first?

I'm not asking if they can, I'm asking what happens if they do.

Thanks.

[/quote]

In trouble with who whom? The preist would certify the marriage certificate at the Catholic ceremony. The Church doesn't care where you go for your honeymoon. :)

The couple would need to get a new marriage license to "marry" in Vegas. If the authorities in Nevada are willing to give a marriage license to a couple that is already married, no foul. If the couple lies in Vegas thinking the priest's certificate is probably not filed yet, they could be in trouble for lying.


#3

It wouldn’t be a 2nd wedding. Vegas allows ceremonies with no license, just not legal. No proof needed either. It’s on you if it’s not legal.


#4

The Church ceremony would be bride, groom, priest, and 2 witnesses. That's it. Don't ask long story.


#5

[quote="Irishgal49, post:3, topic:293069"]
It wouldn't be a 2nd wedding. Vegas allows ceremonies with no license, just not legal. No proof needed either. It's on you if it's not legal.

[/quote]

Then I don't see where you would anticipate a problem. The Vegas ceremony wouldn't really be a civil wedding. The priest would certify the civil marriage at the same time as the Catholic wedding (assuming we are talking about the US). As far as the Church is concerned the Vegas deal would just be play acting - which is all it would be, really. So as long as there is no deceit.... :shrug:


#6

that's what I thought. And as long as it's a civil ceremony it's not religious. OK good deal.


#7

[quote="Irishgal49, post:6, topic:293069"]
that's what I thought. And as long as it's a civil ceremony it's not religious. OK good deal.

[/quote]

Actually, if it was a real civil ceremony, there might be a problem. Simulating marriage is a sin. But with no marriage certificate, this isn't a real civil ceremony; it's just a fun activity.


#8

[quote="Corki, post:7, topic:293069"]
Actually, if it was a real civil ceremony, there might be a problem. Simulating marriage is a sin. But with no marriage certificate, this isn't a real civil ceremony; it's just a fun activity.

[/quote]

The one thing I would like to add is that if a couple were only married religiously, but not legally (yes, its a hypothetical) then there wouldn't be any problem with them subsequently marrying legally.


#9

[quote="thewanderer, post:8, topic:293069"]
The one thing I would like to add is that if a couple were only married religiously, but not legally (yes, its a hypothetical) then there wouldn't be any problem with them subsequently marrying legally.

[/quote]

I doubt the Church would permit that. Just wanting to know. I was thinking if you wanted a wedding in Vegas and you know the Church doesn't allow that you could have a small church wedding (just you and the spouse, priest, and 2 witnesses) then fly to Vegas and have a totally civil ceremony and not really be breaking the rules (as long as it wasn't two religious ceremonies). There is a reason to ask this.


#10

One has to wonder - why wouldn't being sacramentally married in the Church be enough? Why the farce of a Vegas 'wedding' after the REAL thing is done - just to have a party or fun event? I really don't get that. It really makes a mockery of the real thing.

But that's just me. :cool:

~Liza


#11

[quote="Irishgal49, post:9, topic:293069"]
I doubt the Church would permit that. Just wanting to know. I was thinking if you wanted a wedding in Vegas and you know the Church doesn't allow that

[/quote]

Well, not exactly.

The Catholics who live in Las Vegas do get married there, you know. They get married in the Catholic Church. The LV cathedral has instructions on how to be married in the Catholic form in LV.

lasvegas-diocese.org/parishes_guardian_angel.html

[quote="Irishgal49, post:9, topic:293069"]

you could have a small church wedding (just you and the spouse, priest, and 2 witnesses) then fly to Vegas and have a totally civil ceremony and not really be breaking the rules (as long as it wasn't two religious ceremonies). There is a reason to ask this.

[/quote]

I think viewing marriage in this way and attempting a second "marriage" in LV could bring into doubt the validity of the Catholic marriage. What you seem to be describing is an attempt to marry secretly and conceal the fact you married in the Catholic Church while pretending the big bash LV civil marriage is the real marriage. That, to me, has tribunal written all over it.

It certainly isn't something I'd try based on opinions on an internet forum with statements like "long story" and "don't ask" in the mix. First, people on here, me included, are not professionals with a couple of exceptions an secondly, you have (for whatever reason) concealed the "whole story" which could drastically change peoples' replies. This is something I would talk about with my priest extensively befor attempting.

There is something big missing from this story.


#12

[quote="lizaanne, post:10, topic:293069"]
One has to wonder - why wouldn't being sacramentally married in the Church be enough? Why the farce of a Vegas 'wedding' after the REAL thing is done - just to have a party or fun event? I really don't get that. It really makes a mockery of the real thing.

But that's just me. :cool:

~Liza

[/quote]

I agree


#13

One thing to consider is if "in a Catholic ceremony" you mean without a license from the state involved. If that is the case, the Priest is probably not going to be able to do it without permission from the Bishop:
Canon 1071: §1. Except in a case of necessity, a person is not to assist without the permission of the local ordinary at:
...2/ a marriage which cannot be recognized or celebrated according to the norm of civil law;
So basically, if the state you are living in says you need a marriage license to get legally married, the Priest cannot marry you without the license or a determination from his Bishop that yours is a "case of necessity".


#14

If it's an issue like one person's family strongly objects to a Catholic wedding, and they are trying to hide this wedding from the family, and then have a pretend wedding in LV, then they REALLY need to speak with their pastor, IMMEDIATELY.

Asking on a forum like this can be helpful, but you are asking for trouble when you keep the full story hidden. Important facts that would change answers is usually left out. Marriage is a one time thing, they you need to get right the first time. Don't mess around with this. Speak to your pastor right now!


#15

[quote="thewanderer, post:8, topic:293069"]
The one thing I would like to add is that if a couple were only married religiously, but not legally (yes, its a hypothetical) then there wouldn't be any problem with them subsequently marrying legally.

[/quote]

That's why I was trying to clarify that they were talking about a US wedding. In the US, the priest is the representative for the civil marriage license as well as the Catholic marriage official.

[quote="zz912, post:14, topic:293069"]
If it's an issue like one person's family strongly objects to a Catholic wedding, and they are trying to hide this wedding from the family, and then have a pretend wedding in LV, then they REALLY need to speak with their pastor, IMMEDIATELY.

[/quote]

I was wondering the same thing which is why I kept emphasizing that this presumes no deceit is involve.


#16

[quote="Irishgal49, post:9, topic:293069"]
I doubt the Church would permit that. Just wanting to know. I was thinking if you wanted a wedding in Vegas and you know the Church doesn't allow that you could have a small church wedding (just you and the spouse, priest, and 2 witnesses) then fly to Vegas and have a totally civil ceremony and not really be breaking the rules (as long as it wasn't two religious ceremonies). There is a reason to ask this.

[/quote]

I'm not sure why you think the church wouldn't allow that. I mean, I know in the US one is normally married legally at the same time that they are married religiously, but I don't see how getting married legally would be a problem even if one were already married religiously, so long as they had never been married legally before. A religious and a legal marriage ceremony are two completely different things, one binds a couple through the sacrament of marriage, the other is simply a legal ceremony through which the state recognizes them as legally married. Although, admittedly, this whole question is a little off topic. :) I'm not sure of the answer to your question, but I think that the situation you bring up sounds more like a simulation of marriage.


#17

[quote="thewanderer, post:16, topic:293069"]
I'm not sure why you think the church wouldn't allow that. I mean, I know in the US one is normally married legally at the same time that they are married religiously, but I don't see how getting married legally would be a problem even if one were already married religiously, so long as they had never been married legally before. A religious and a legal marriage ceremony are two completely different things, one binds a couple through the sacrament of marriage, the other is simply a legal ceremony through which the state recognizes them as legally married. Although, admittedly, this whole question is a little off topic. :) I'm not sure of the answer to your question, but I think that the situation you bring up sounds more like a simulation of marriage.

[/quote]

In the US the Church wedding is both the religious and civil marriage. Some countries don't permit the Church to legally witness marriages (Ie: Mexico) where there is a church wedding and a small civil marriage. In that case, such is permitted. In the case the OP is talking about, it is not permitted.


#18

[quote="Deo_Gratias42, post:17, topic:293069"]
In the US the Church wedding is both the religious and civil marriage. Some countries don't permit the Church to legally witness marriages (Ie: Mexico) where there is a church wedding and a small civil marriage. In that case, such is permitted. In the case the OP is talking about, it is not permitted.

[/quote]

I realize that in the states the legal marriage occurs at the same time as the religious, I was bringing this up merely as a hypothetical (as I originally stated) for the sake of helping show some of the nuances involved here more clearly. I'm not trying to tell the OP she can just get married religiously and then go to vegas for a legal wedding, I doubtt she would be able to receive the necessary dispensation to be married only religiously if it were simply because she wanted to be married legally in vegas. I just thought this example helped to show that there is a difference between a legal and a religious ceremony and that they are, in fact, two completely different things. Maybe that is completely irrelevent, if so, I'm sorry for bringing it up. I was just trying to help.


#19

[quote="1ke, post:12, topic:293069"]
I agree

[/quote]

The bride has two adult children who refuse to attend a church wedding. The groom has no living relatives.

Both of the bride's adult children had a grandfather who lived in Las Vegas (now deceased) and that city has an emotional attachment for the bride and her adult children. The couple wants to ensure they follow the teachings of the Church but also have a heartfelt desire to marry outside in a location in Vegas that speaks to them (and the children would attend). So, because they don't want to disobey the Church, they are going to have the marriage with the priest and two witnesses, then come to Vegas and have a "ceremony" (NOT WEDDING) by reading their own hand written statements and having the family present.

Sad but there are no biological relatives who can/world attend a Church cermeony so there's no point it spending a lot of money on it.

Upon return they would have a full reception.


#20

[quote="1ke, post:11, topic:293069"]
Well, not exactly.

The Catholics who live in Las Vegas do get married there, you know. They get married in the Catholic Church. The LV cathedral has instructions on how to be married in the Catholic form in LV.

lasvegas-diocese.org/parishes_guardian_angel.html

I think viewing marriage in this way and attempting a second "marriage" in LV could bring into doubt the validity of the Catholic marriage. What you seem to be describing is an attempt to marry secretly and conceal the fact you married in the Catholic Church while pretending the big bash LV civil marriage is the real marriage. That, to me, has tribunal written all over it.

It certainly isn't something I'd try based on opinions on an internet forum with statements like "long story" and "don't ask" in the mix. First, people on here, me included, are not professionals with a couple of exceptions an secondly, you have (for whatever reason) concealed the "whole story" which could drastically change peoples' replies. This is something I would talk about with my priest extensively befor attempting.

There is something big missing from this story.

[/quote]

Actually there is nothing missing. Just want to know as long as you are not having two religious ceremonies if you can do that. People can "renew" their vows and those involved would certainly tell the family the religious ceremony is the valid marriage, because they are against the church and won't go. So of course the couple would affirm the religious ceremony while having a ceremony where the adult children would participate and attend.


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