Well, I heard it at Mass today


#1

I have no doubt that some of you have heard it today as well. The infamous, "the real miracle was sharing" from today's Gosple from John 6:1-15...the multiplication of the loaves and fishes. A deacon from a different parish, who was recently ordained in June gave the homliy. At first he was telling how people use to travel in those days, then he said that the real miracle was that the young man giving up his food giving it to Jesus, mean while I was saying on the inside; please don't say it, please don't say it... Then, that inspired others who had food with them to share with those who didn't...facepalm. What a great diservice that homilies or explinations like these do to the Evangelists, the witnesses of the miracle, and to Christ Himself. Christ raises a girl from the dead, changes water to wine, raises Lazarus from the dead after 4 days, etc, etc, etc, and He can't multiple a few loaves and fishes? Come on, give me a break.

The sharing explination to this reading doesnt account for the 12 baskets left over. :mad:


#2

but sharing is caring


#3

[quote="rivera01, post:1, topic:293381"]
I have no doubt that some of you have heard it today as well. The infamous, "the real miracle was sharing" from today's Gosple from John 6:1-15...the multiplication of the loaves and fishes. A deacon from a different parish, who was recently ordained in June gave the homliy. At first he was telling how people use to travel in those days, then he said that the real miracle was that the young man giving up his food giving it to Jesus, mean while I was saying on the inside; please don't say it, please don't say it... Then, that inspired others who had food with them to share with those who didn't...facepalm. What a great diservice that homilies or explinations like these do to the Evangelists, the witnesses of the miracle, and to Christ Himself. Christ raises a girl from the dead, changes water to wine, raises Lazarus from the dead after 4 days, etc, etc, etc, and He can't multiple a few loaves and fishes? Come on, give me a break.

The sharing explination to this reading doesnt account for the 12 baskets left over. :mad:

[/quote]

Yeah, a couple of years ago an old priest (maybe in his 70s or 80s) said the same thing in his Homily at a parish I just started attending at that time. I was blown away.:eek: I hope this is not the official Catholic interpretation of that Scripture via the Magisterium and Holy Father. Of course, if it is, I have to accept it. But I doubt it is......


#4

[quote="rivera01, post:1, topic:293381"]
I have no doubt that some of you have heard it today as well. The infamous, "the real miracle was sharing" from today's Gosple from John 6:1-15...the multiplication of the loaves and fishes. A deacon from a different parish, who was recently ordained in June gave the homliy. At first he was telling how people use to travel in those days, then he said that the real miracle was that the young man giving up his food giving it to Jesus, mean while I was saying on the inside; please don't say it, please don't say it... Then, that inspired others who had food with them to share with those who didn't...facepalm. What a great diservice that homilies or explinations like these do to the Evangelists, the witnesses of the miracle, and to Christ Himself. Christ raises a girl from the dead, changes water to wine, raises Lazarus from the dead after 4 days, etc, etc, etc, and He can't multiple a few loaves and fishes? Come on, give me a break.

The sharing explination to this reading doesnt account for the 12 baskets left over. :mad:

[/quote]

The sharing feels more miraculous than the other, and it is a good lesson for all.
And if many deacons and priests teach the story this way, it must mean that the way they are telling it may be correct. You would be open to accept that, yes?


#5

Our wonderful priest talked about how some may interpret Jesus' miracle in this way, but he dismissed it. I wish I could remember exactly what he said, but I'm sure I would get it wrong if I tried. I was very grateful to hear his authentic teaching on scripture.

Thank you Father for wonderful priests. Please give us more holy men like this. Amen


#6

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:4, topic:293381"]
The sharing feels more miraculous than the other, and it is a good lesson for all.
And if many deacons and priests teach the story this way, it must mean that the way they are telling it may be correct. You would be open to accept that, yes?

[/quote]

The Scripture doesn't say that they all just "shared". It described succinctly Jesus committing a miracle. How many other miracles that Jesus did, like rasing the dead and healing the blind, be explained away if we interpret them in the same way? Because basically you are saying that it were the people who did the miracle, and not Jesus. To me this interpretation would void Jesus' divinty, because only God can do miracles (and true disciples, of course).


#7

Christ had it worse. Later in the same chapter, the crowds are seeking Jesus and He tells them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of loaves." There He is, the Son of God, performing a miracle because He saw the physical need of the 5000 men with their wives and children and took pity on them, and the people aren't even looking for Him because of the miracle. They were hoping for more free food! Then Christ goes on to tell the people that He is the Bread of Life, that we must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood or we will have no life within us, that His Flesh is food indeed and His Blood is drink indeed, telling the people that followed Him about the major, all-eclipsing miracle He's going to give us on the Cross--and the people say His teaching is too hard to accept and walk away from Him. Two millennia have gone by, and people are still looking for the easy teaching or the free ride, neither of which Our Lord ever gave.

Just remember the end of John 6, when Jesus turns to the Apostles and says, "Will you also go away?" Peter's answer was exactly right: "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; and we have believed, and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God." And that's the answer we should give Him, too, no matter what other priests or deacons might say.


#8

[quote="cmforte, post:6, topic:293381"]
The Scripture doesn't say that they all just "shared". It described succinctly Jesus committing a miracle. How many other miracles that Jesus did, like rasing the dead and healing the blind, be explained away if we interpret them in the same way? Because basically you are saying that it were the people who did the miracle, and not Jesus. To me this interpretation would void Jesus' divinty, because only God can do miracles (and true disciples, of course).

[/quote]

The boy came with the goods. That is what the scripture says. Then later, after Jesus took what the boy brought- it became enough to spread around.
So, yes the scripture does make it clear there was sharing that day. They all shared a meal after a boy came there with something for Jesus to do something with to make it possible for all there to have something.


#9

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:4, topic:293381"]
The sharing feels more miraculous than the other...

[/quote]

Of course this happened a few years before I came on the scene, but IMHO, I don't believe that sharing was viewed as a miracle back then. It, like today, may not always occur but to suggest that what took place in the Gospel of John was nothing more than a "Stone Soup" moment detracts from what the Scripture says took place.

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:4, topic:293381"]
... and it is a good lesson for all.

[/quote]

While it's true that sharing and charity itself are something that we are all called to practice, this is not the lesson being taught here. Unless of course you are speaking of Christ’s generosity in multiplying the fish and loaves.

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:4, topic:293381"]
And if many deacons and priests teach the story this way, it must mean that the way they are telling it may be correct. You would be open to accept that, yes?

[/quote]

No. First, "many" deacons & priests are not out there teaching this. Thankfully, I have never heard any deacons or priests interpret this passage in that way. Sometimes people (deacons & priests included) just get it wrong. Some people learn to tie their shoes in a day while others may take weeks to master it. We're all given differing levels of understanding.


#10

[quote="cmforte, post:6, topic:293381"]
The Scripture doesn't say that they all just "shared". It described succinctly Jesus committing a miracle. How many other miracles that Jesus did, like rasing the dead and healing the blind, be explained away if we interpret them in the same way? Because basically you are saying that it were the people who did the miracle, and not Jesus. To me this interpretation would void Jesus' divinty, because only God can do miracles (and true disciples, of course).

[/quote]

Which version of scripture are you reading from, may I ask?
I just re-read the scene in four different versions,and they all stress the breaking and sharing of the food.
But as I said in my other post, the sharing feels like a bigger miracle.
Don't you want Jesus to have affected all those people that they would then feel such love in their hearts to then share with each other?
It's a heart-warming story!


#11

niv.scripturetext.com/john/6.htm

The boy not only comes up with the barley loaves and the fish, but is a mysterious character. We know nothing about this boy or who he is or how he showed up with bread and fish and no one else did.


#12

There is an article on this view for those interested, that this miracle was sharing, at newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2011/07/multiplication-of-loaves-what-if-it.html
I find the comments after the end of this article are very interesting


#13

**5 When Jesus looked up and saw a great crowd coming toward him, he said to Philip, “Where shall we buy bread for these people to eat?” 6 He asked this only to test him, for he already had in mind what he was going to do.

7 Philip answered him, “It would take more than half a year’s wages[a] to buy enough bread for each one to have a bite!”

8 Another of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, spoke up, 9 “Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but how far will they go among so many?”

10 Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place, and they sat down (about five thousand men were there). 11 Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish.

12 When they had all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, “Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted.” 13 So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten.

14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15 Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.**

How is there possibly any doubt about what just happened there? I am glad that I heard it preached correctly at two masses this weekend, last night and again tonight.
Any minister preaching anything other than the truth of this awesome miracle should be prevented from ever again preaching in the Roman Catholic Church.

Jesus is so absolutely awesome. My Lord. My God. Praise and Glory to you my Lord Jesus Christ. :crossrc:

I love John 6. I am so excited to hear it at mass over the next few weeks. This is great. Our Church is the best. Praise God!


#14

[quote="cmforte, post:6, topic:293381"]
The Scripture doesn't say that they all just "shared". It described succinctly Jesus committing a miracle. How many other miracles that Jesus did, like rasing the dead and healing the blind, be explained away if we interpret them in the same way? Because basically you are saying that it were the people who did the miracle, and not Jesus. To me this interpretation would void Jesus' divinty, because only God can do miracles (and true disciples, of course).

[/quote]

You don't 'commit' miracles, you commit sins. You perform miracles.

And to my mind there is no doubt. Only the boy is mentioned as having any food with him at all. Besides which, the miracle echoes the OT miracle of Elisha that forms the first reading - in Elisha's case it is equally crystal clear that food is miraculously manufactured, not simply shared.


#15

[quote="cmforte, post:3, topic:293381"]
Yeah, a couple of years ago an old priest (maybe in his 70s or 80s) said the same thing in his Homily at a parish I just started attending at that time. I was blown away.:eek: I hope this is not the official Catholic interpretation of that Scripture via the Magisterium and Holy Father. Of course, if it is, I have to accept it. But I doubt it is......

[/quote]

Thankfully, it is NOT the official Catholic interpretation! It is truly a miracle and it points to the Eucharist.

I believe it came out of the "Jesus Seminar" thinkers back in the fifties. Sad that it is still around and being taught.


#16

I heard a great homily as well!


#17

My little pony, my little pony...


#18

We have an absolutely wonderful deacon in my parish that gave the homily this Sunday. He interpreted it as (and I felt the same) that it was about bringing your gifts to God, now matter how small you think they may be, and he will mutliply them and give you more than enough for His mission. :thumbsup:

That was basically the gist. It was one of those things I needed to hear for my own personal life, so I definitely remember that homily!

Wonderful message!

:signofcross:


#19

This recently came up on a show with Fr. Mitch Pacwa on EWTN and he made the point that the crowd had been there for quite a time by the point when the fishes and loaves miracle was performed. Considering that any of the food that was shared had been hidden under someone’s clothing for well over 24 hours in rather warm conditions and it would be highly unlikely to have still been edible by then, not to mention the stench that had to arise from that sort of thing. :shrug:


#20

Yes, the miracle was accomplished when someone was able to come forward and share what little they had. Jesus could create a banquet out of nothing but requires our own cooperation materially and willfully first and foremost. That is one of the important lessons which the Church is bringing to us from the Gospel account.


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