Were both thieves saved on the Cross?


#1

One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!”(Lk. 23:39).

Is this a declaration of faith? If so, wouldn’t this thief have been saved? Instead, Christ only tells one thief that he will be with Him in paradise.


#2

You’ve answered your own question. I guess you wanted to imply something more. What was it?


#3

[quote=Kevan]You’ve answered your own question. I guess you wanted to imply something more. What was it?
[/quote]

I’ll take a shot at it. I believe he’s implying:

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, %between%but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”


#4

so simple faith that Jesus is the Chruist is insufficient…?

Actually, i always thought that what the bad theif said was simply mockery.


#5

The theif was just making fun of Jesus.

If he meant it in any way at all, it was that he was making fun of Jesus but also nervously hoping that maybe Jesus was God and would save him from his crucifixion.


#6

[quote=Brain]so simple faith that Jesus is the Chruist is insufficient…?

Actually, i always thought that what the bad theif said was simply mockery.
[/quote]

No, faith in Jesus is not insufficient. It just begs the question of what exacty faith is. Satan knows Jesus is God, but he isn’t getting back into the Kingdom anytime soon. Faith is not merely confessing with your mouth that Jesus is the Lord (as Christ confessed in Matt 7:21), it is also living by the words and the commandments that Jesus left us.


#7

Caiaphus mocked Jesus upon the cross as well, didn’t he? “You say that you’ll destroy the Temple and build it up again in three days, but you can’t even get yourself down off of that cross!”

The “good thief” not only recognized Jesus as the Christ, he threw himself upon the Lord’s mercy.

I wonder what happened to the “bad thief” - the Bible doesn’t really say, does it? Did he recognize his Creator and beg forgiveness? Or did he continue to mock God all the way to hell?

I’ve wondered about Caiaphus, too. When, exactly did it occur to him that he had just killed God? The Passion of the Christ seems to show that he may have had some inkling, but the Bible speaks of his continuing to persecute the apostles. Did he really have a change of heart as the veil in the temple split, but then harden his heart, again?

I hope I’ll get the chance to ask Jesus what happened with them both.


#8

Yes, I was implying more. It is my belief that it is more than a declaration of faith that gets us into heaven (a friend of mine calls this welfare religion). Jesus brought this out rather pointedly in the parable of the two brothers: one said he’d do as his father asked and didn’t, one said he wasn’t going to and then did do it. I’m just curious if the thief’s declaration is thought to be enough for some faiths that teach “Faith Alone”.

As for Caiaphus, I’d love to see what was going through his mind. He had to wonder if he messed up when the veil tore, but he proved to be just as hard headed as many of the OT Jews. Of course, you could say the same thing about people today, can’t you?

NotWorthy


#9

[quote=Brain]so simple faith that Jesus is the Chruist is insufficient…?..
[/quote]

My Islamic friends believe in Jesus. My Mormon, JW, Baptist, etc… friends belive in Jesus. My Catholic friends believe in Him and become one with Him at mass as He commanded us to!

Faith doesn’t save us - Jesus does. Jesus will judge our Faith based on our works that flow out from our Faith. We are saved when Jesus judges us - not before. Since predestination is an abomination to Jesus and Christians I doubt we are judged before we die. Thats why Scripture tells us to endure in ‘HOPE’ untill the end for salvation. Jesus told the thief beside Him that the He would see the theif in paradise. If you study history you will see that paradise was NOT heaven to Jews. It was a place to wait when Jews die. Nowhere in Sacred Scripture does Jesus tell us He judged the thief and took Him to heaven. Heaven and paradise are two different locations.


#10

As far as the ‘bad’ thief goes even if his statement was meant that he truly believed that Jesus was indeed the Son of God, what he does is basically demand that Jesus do something, rather than trust him.

Of course, for all we know before his last breath he may have had a perfect repentence :slight_smile: Only God knows for a surety though.

Something else that has always interested me that kind of goes along with this, is the centurion who says “Truly this man was was the Son of God!” Mk 15:39. Is he the very first person to find salvation in Jesus after Jesus’ death?


#11

[quote=Malachi4U]My Islamic friends believe in Jesus. My Mormon, JW, Baptist, etc… friends belive in Jesus. My Catholic friends believe in Him and become one with Him at mass as He commanded us to!

Faith doesn’t save us - Jesus does. Jesus will judge our Faith based on our works that flow out from our Faith. We are saved when Jesus judges us - not before. Since predestination is an abomination to Jesus and Christians I doubt we are judged before we die. Thats why Scripture tells us to endure in ‘HOPE’ untill the end for salvation. Jesus told the thief beside Him that the He would see the theif in paradise. If you study history you will see that paradise was NOT heaven to Jews. It was a place to wait when Jews die. Nowhere in Sacred Scripture does Jesus tell us He judged the thief and took Him to heaven. Heaven and paradise are two different locations.
[/quote]

Accodring to a poll in England youths beleive Jesus is a superhero. SO your right just what Jesus do you beleive in? Just what kind of faith in Jesus do you have? It matters a lot more than a mere statement I beleive in Jesus - even the demons believe.

And I know what happened to the bad thief he got his eye poke out by that raven and he died an unbeleiver well that is what the Passion showed anyway.:wink:


#12

Longinus – I suppose that he was now that you mention it:

LONGINUS

Memorial
15 March

Profile
Soldier who pierced the side of Jesus during the Crucifixion. Convert. Martyred by order of Pontius Pilate.

Born
Cappadocia
Died
martyred in Cappadocia in the 1st century; relics in the church of Saint Augustine, Rome, Italy

Canonized
Pre-Congregation

Representation
soldier, often in a uniform contemporaneous with the artist, carrying a spear soldier at the foot of the cross

Readings
When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, “It is finished.” And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit. Now since it was preparation day, in order that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath, for the sabbath day of that week was a solemn one, the Jews asked Pilate that their legs be broken and they be taken down. So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and then of the other one who was crucified with Jesus. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs, but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed out. An eyewitness has testified, and his testimony is true; he knows that he is speaking the truth, so that you also may (come to) believe. For this happened so that the scripture passage might be fulfilled: “Not a bone of it will be broken.” And again another passage says: “They will look upon him whom they have pierced.”

-John 19:30-37

catholic-forum.com/saints/saintl56.htm


#13

Who can say? Only God knows the hearts of men (and women :stuck_out_tongue: ) If the thief who questioned Jesus had true desire for the kingdom of heaven and had the will to repent I personally believe that God would not have him suffer in everlasting punishment, but there’s always purgatory and I hope that if he didn’t make it straight to heaven that he at least went to purgatory. But it’s always important to never believe that you know one way or the other if a certain person is in Heaven or Hell (except for the obviously holy such as saints who are no doubt in Heaven)


#14

I would say probably not since Jesus said to the one that He will see him. The other wasn’t showing faith, just taunting.


#15

[quote=NotWorthy]Yes, I was implying more. It is my belief that it is more than a declaration of faith that gets us into heaven (a friend of mine calls this welfare religion).
[/quote]

Fair enough. I’d say the same thing myself.

But what do you think made the difference between the saved thief and the other one?


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