Were you a Christian or BORN AGAIN AND NOW A CATHOLIC? If so please could you help me?

I have been raised a Catholic and see that as my faith and I have recently got very involved in studying the Bible more than I have ever done before. I wont lie to you that (it is a blessing if you look at it) that the reason behind me sunddenly getting the urge to go to Mass every week and study and read the Bible like I have never done before is because the man I am marrying is a born again christian, and even though he respects our differences in faith there are loads of questions he asks me regarding certain things mentioned in the bible that we follow and do a different way e.g “call no man father” yet we call Preists Father, “never have a mediator” (they think we use Mary as a Mediator between us and Jesus, and baptizing of babies who are not at an age of understanding so cant follow the line “repent and be baptised”.

I have backed the Catholic understanding on these certain subjects with theorys and actual quotes from the Bible and he starts to realise and question a little more, but then he will ask for advice from someone who believes in the born again way and they will convince him that their way is the ‘right’ way.

**Now I wouldnt knock anyone’s faith or beliefs because I dont have the power, we will only know if what we have done is right or wrong on judgement day by the ONE PERSON that holds such power. But i genuinely believe in my mind, body and soul that the Catholic way is the way to go. **

I am not saying that my fiances beleifs are wrong because he too beleives in Jesus and reads the Bible religiously, however the one thing (and i would never class everyone the same, this is from PERSONAL experience) that I have got from certain born-again followers is that what they think is 100% accurate to what Jesus said or meant. Now any reader of intelligence knows that some things Jesus said were anabolic (if thats the correct spelling) which means they could of been taken 1 of 2 ways, for e.g ‘call no man father’…did he mean literally or not. Now a born-again christian quoted this and said ‘why do you call a Preist Father when it clearly tells you NOT to do this?’ and ‘that is what Jesus meant’, now **who is anyone to tell me or anyone ‘what Jesus meant’? no one has the right!! That would also be hypocrital because if they went on to read the WHOLE passage is mentions not to call anyone master, teacher, doctor. **

Is there anyone out there who could help me with any amazing quotes to justify what we believe is the TRUTH. I dont want to take over his life or make him feel bad about what he belives in. Only he is in control of his own faith. **BUT are there any quotes, bible phrases, bits from scriptures or any opinions that can give him something to think about??
**

IS ANYONE HERE ORIGINALLY A CHRISTIAN OR BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN OR ANY OTHER RELIGION WHO CHANGED TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH??? IF SO COULD YOU PLEASE SHARE YOUR TESTIMONY

I am really looking forward to hearing from you

God Bless

I understand what you’re trying to do here, but may I suggest you’re going about it wrong?

It sounds like you are assuming the burden of proof is on you, but it is not. He is the one making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on him. The burden of proof is always on the one making the accusations.

It sounds like what you need is a crash course in the technique of how to defend your faith. Here’s a website you will find extremely helpful:

biblechristiansociety.com/download

All the audio downloads are free, or you can get the talks on either CD or cassette for free. I highly suggest you give a good listen to the first one, entitled “Apologetics for the Scripturally Challenged”, which, despite the title, is all about technique when engaging a non-Catholic Christian in dialogue. I’ve listened to it several times, and it sounds exactly like what you’re looking for. It also includes a set of questions you can ask your fiance.

Hope this helps!

Also, buy a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. That book delves deeply into the teachings of the Church and explains that what, why, who, etc… It takes away the burden of having to try to explain what you think the Church teaches and why it teaches that by explaining it for you. The index is very user-friendly for looking up specific subjects/teachings.

ahs

Exodus 20:[1]And the Lord spoke all these words: [2] I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [3] Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. [4] Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

Exodus 25:[18] Thou shalt make also two cherubims of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle. [19] Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. [20] Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered.

peace

I agree with most of what you’re saying except for the above. I always see it said on CAF that the burden of proof is on the person making the accusations.

Here is the problem with this outlook. When a Protestant tells you a Catholic belief is wrong, he usually has scripture to back it up. So there goes the proof. If the Catholic is not well versed in apologetics and does not know how to respond, then basically, the Protestant’s “proof” stands.

To the OP: CAF has a lot of articles on different teachings that Protestants tend to disagree with like Mary, Indulgences, Purgatory etc. If you do a search in the Faith section, then you will find lots of scripture to refute the accusations.

I also think scripturecatholic.com is a good site because it shows Biblical basis, which helps to even out the playing field with dealing with a Protestant.

Of course it is. Surely you believe in innocent until proven guilty. If you were accused of doing something wrong, don’t you think the burden of proof is on the one making the claim?

It is the OP’s fiance who is making the claim that her religion is wrong. Therefore, the burden is on him to prove his claims.

Here is the problem with this outlook. When a Protestant tells you a Catholic belief is wrong, he usually has scripture to back it up. So there goes the proof. If the Catholic is not well versed in apologetics and does not know how to respond, then basically, the Protestant’s “proof” stands.

And that’s the point where you question their so-called scriptural “proof” and demolish it by showing how it’s taken out of context, misinterpreted, or conflicts with other scripture. But you can’t even get to that point until you ask to see their “proof” first, which is one reason why the burden of proof is on them.

If the Catholic doesn’t have a ready answer, he should respond, “I’ll think about that and get back to you.” Then he should do his research and get back with an answer. The fact that a Catholic doesn’t have a ready answer doesn’t make the Protestant right.

I have got from certain born-again followers is that what they think is 100% accurate to what Jesus said or meant.

You are in love, girl, and love is blind! 100% sure!! Not even the Pope !! So he is 100% accurate and you ? 10% ? You’re in love, girl, and that is moving.:heart: Forget about that. It is not because you are born-again and say things in a strong way that you are accurate.

I have recently got very involved in studying the Bible more than I have ever done before.

Why the Bible? :bible1:Why so much Bible reading? Sorry, Protestant Brothers, but it looks like Protestant. And now everybody starts interpreting the Bible and fight on the true meaning of certain passages (fight? what for?) and, in the end, oh!, the marvelous power of love, :heart:born-again followers are always accurate !! :shrug::heart:

It is like that and I wish the best to your love and should you be together till death, but the power to interpret Scriptures, In the Catholic Church (CC) is up to the community around the Pope. And sometimes, it takes centuries to decide on something. I am discussing here with a Coptic Orthodox about the “filioque”, a controversy that has got 1000 years and still the question pops up as strong as centuries ago in the discussion with my friend. And it is one word: “filioque”.

Now pretend that someone has got the key to Bible interpretation is too much. In Catholic Church, we do not study the Bible like that. I would suggest the writings of the Vatican II, all the books of John Paul II, the writing of Benedictus XVI and the former Cardinal Ratzinger and the writings of great Saints like The Confessions of St. Augustin, St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa of Avila, St Theresa of Litlle Jesus (??? I am not english) speaker), the recently Anthony the Mello.

My opinion., of course. my Personal Opinion only.
:thumbsup:

Thankyou all for your feedback.
I have been taking a look at some of the links that you have given me especially the 2-minute apologetics and they were very easy to understand and my fiance seems to be getting a clearer understanding of why we baptize infants which is good!

He knows of a lot of people who have turned from Catholic to born-again christian and so wonders what was the ‘deal breaker’ which made them convert. However I try to always state that there is only ONE faith and that is to believe in Jesus Christ son of God, and as long as you believe that we should all come together.

Has anyone out there converted? I would love to hear testimonies please.

suggest you go on the apologetics forum for specific ways to respond to specific questions from a Born Again Christian, but also for suggestions on books by Catholics who have converted from those particular forms of Christianity. Their conversion stories may be more relevant to him that debate on topics, especially with someone as close to him as you are. for a quickie, search This Rock past issues on the CA homepage, in each issue is a feature called Damascus Road, which is an individual conversion story.

The book you yourself must read is Search and Rescue–what relatives should and should not say to other relatives about the Catholic faith.

Hi RRusso,

I converted from being a ‘born-again’ protestant to a ‘born-again’ Catholic. :wink:

It would help if you could get your fiance to define several key questions/points of disagreement he has with the Catholic Church. Then you can go one point by one point and work your way towards understanding at least if not hopefully in the end agreement.

My now wife was raised Catholic and I began my journey towards Rome in large part because I saw how real and active her faith was. I saw that she loved Jesus as much as I did. I’d never really even considered that the Catholic Church might be the true Church. It had never even occurred to me before I met my wife.

Anyway, if he’s serious about his questions have him read “Rome, Sweet Home” by Scott Hahn. Also, once you have a list of questions feel free to send me a PM (private message) which will get emailed to me and I’ll work on giving you some ideas for responses.

It’s important to know that you don’t have to have all the answers. “I don’t know but I’ll go find out” :shrug: is a perfectly acceptable reply, particularly if in his love for you he is serious about investigating the claims of the Catholic Church.

I noticed that you didn’t address any of the practical kind of things but I’m curious - where are you going to get married (in a Catholic Church or not?) and how will you raise your children (Catholic or not)? If you truly love each other, you need to answer those questions NOW before you get married so that once you’re married, those questions won’t be an issue that could drive you apart.

Finally, do you live anywhere near Connecticut? My wife and I are fairly central in the state and have two small children (9 months and 22 months) and, if you and your fiance are interested, we’d be happy to have you to dinner (and discussion).

Peace and grace,

DF :slight_smile:

EDIT: PS, there’s a longer version of my conversion story but i don’t have time to post it now. If you’re interested let me know and I’ll make sure to come back to this thread.

I would also recommend Crossing the Tiber. Part of the book is a heavily footnoted story of how he and his family came to be Catholic. The other two parts are (equally heavily footnoted) quotes on the topics of baptism and the Eucharist. I would also recommend getting This Is the Faith. Between these, you will get a very strong conversion story plus a lot of well-written material to explain what the Church really teaches (as opposed to the distortions of those teachings that tend to come from, in particular, evangelical and Baptist stripes of Protestant Christianity).

Now I am a convert from the evangelical tradition (I was born and raised in a family that comes from that variety of Christianity) and I never questioned the faith I had been raised in until I was in my 20s. I found myself in what I’d now call a state of mortal sin, and came off the moorings of the faith I had been raised in and choosing between despair (and suicide) and the Episcopal church, I became Episcopalian. I spent nearly a decade there when I had another ‘major fork’ … we had a homily by a visiting woman who was one of the first women to be ordained in the Episcopal church … well, instead of a homily, we got treated to this rather misogynistic and extreme misandry-filled rant about how motherhood was slavery and lesbianism was an ideal. I couldn’t stomach that. But that is where you can end up when you allow “truth” to be determined by popular vote. Adrift again, I kept getting pulled toward the Catholic Church.

During this time, I’d developed a rather bad habit of swearing like the truck drivers and other folks in the receiving area where I was then employed (like 70% of my speech would be profanity, obscenity, or vulgarity and 30% was actual communication). And I couldn’t seem to stop using the language. So I decided that since I’d heard “the rosary is a powerful prayer” that I would put it to the test … and so I offered a daily rosary (in secret) for control of my tongue. Two weeks later, I was not only no longer using that sort of language, I wasn’t even thinking it. Well, now, I was pretty close to convinced, except for one big thing … the issue of contraception.

So, I decided that what I would do was offer this daily rosary for the intention of “understanding” Catholic teaching. This went on for three days when my prayers were interrupted by the Voice. Now, as I write this, using the capital letter there, you can pretty well guess where this is going. In my prayers, I had been saying that “if I could just understand, I would obey”. The Voice, however, told me to obey. I admit, I didn’t know the identity yet, I was stubborn “but I want to understand”. The Voice said “I want obedience”. That’s when I knew. That’s also when I date when I ceased to be Protestant.

Funny enough, it wasn’t too much later that the issue of (now sadly defunct) Catholic Dossier arrived, devoted to the subject of contraception and Church teaching and why.

In the end, it comes down to obedience (or disobedience). In choosing obedience, I chose to become Catholic.

I am a convert from the “born-again” group to Catholicism.

For me, the question was one of authority. If the Bible is to be the sole source of authority in our lives, but I believe that a certain passage says one thing, and you believe that it says something else, who has the authority to say which interpretation is right and which is wrong? There is no such authority in Protestantism, but there is in Catholicism.

Also, Jesus said that He would build his church on the Rock, and that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Historically, the Catholic Church of today is the church that Jesus Christ founded. If, as Protestants claim, the Catholic Church apostacized in the 4th century (or whenever), then the “gates of hell” did prevail against the church that Jesus founded, and that would make Jesus either wrong or a liar.

I would strongly urge you to take a close look at your relationship in the light of II Cor 6:14-18. No, your fiance is not an unbeliever in the sense that Paul was using, but he does not believe as you do, and odds are that if you marry him, that will cause major friction down the line. I would also suggest that you talk to some of the women in your parish who have been living in mixed marriages for several decades and learn what they have to say about it. You need wisdom here, and one of the definitions of wisdom is the ability to learn from others’ mistakes.

Thankyou for all of your replies.

Any more testimonies?

You can find many such testimonies at the “Coming Home Network” website which was created to help Protestant pastors who have converted to the Catholic Church:

chnetwork.org/

Get David Currie’s book “Born Fundalmentist, Born Again Catholic”. Read it together.

When someone makes a negative accusation about my faith; I usually respond that you´re wrong and I´ll pray for you. If they continue pushing the issue, then I´ll tell them that if they want to know why I believe what I believe then I´ll tell them. If however, they just want some ammunition to use as criticizm, then I´m not interested in continuing the conversation. Jesus wants me to tell the good news. He will take charge of those who hear it, to believe or disbelieve it. Nothing in the Catholic Catechism is in disagreement with The Holy Scriptures. If there are those that try to make it so, then ,their just wrong. There´s only one way to interpret scripture. The Church´s way. God bless:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

pilgrimbiblesociety.org.uk/
gypsygospel.co.uk/
gypsy-gospel.blogspot.com/

have a look at these websites and tell me what you think.
This is what my fiance follows

God Bless

All Catholics are born again at baptism.One is baptized into the life of Christ.OS is gone and now we are born of the spirit.

Hi RRusso,

At first glance there is not a lot there that is objectionable to the Catholic. The first thing is the exclusion of the Apocrapha which would be more accurately called the deuterocanonical books. Essentially, most if not all protestants exclude these books of the Old Testament because they are not part of the current Hebrew Bible. However, when Jesus and the Apostles taught in the first century all of those books were considered either wisdom literature or prophetic literature (i.e. Scripture) by the Hebrews.

It seems that they do not believe in infant baptism because in order to be baptized they say that someone must first repent of their sins and believe and obviously a baby can’t do that.

Typically, Catholic Apologists will point to the passage in Acts 16 where the jailor “and all his household” were baptized to say that while the baptism of infants isn’t directly mentioned in the Bible it’s also not prohibited and there are plenty of times when it might have happened. Further, the early church fathers all taught that infants should be baptized into the church and into grace.

Also, they seem to say that baptism must be by full immersion but that is not anywhere specified in scripture.

Their view of salvation is that it’s a ‘once and done’ sort of thing where as Paul wrote “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”. Now that doesn’t mean that you can work your way into heaven but really that salvation is process of perfecting us for Heaven that begins with God’s grace to us through Christ on the Cross, our belief in that saving grace and then our continued work to move ever closer to Him. This is not so much a disagreement as it is a deeper theological truth (thanks again to the 2000 years of Church teaching).

Most importantly, they have ‘communion’ as simply the breaking of bread, nothing more. They do not have the Real Presence of Christ, his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity and simply don’t understand that they are missing out on the most important gift Christ gave us.

I’m sure there are some other points that others could take up (and hopefully refine my own -i’m fairly new at being Catholic (Tiber Swim Club 2007)) but those seem to me to be the key points of disagreement.

Peace and grace,

I am not a Catholic in the sense of being in communion with Rome. However, I did change from a very low-church evangelical theology (what you refer to as “born again”) to a theology much closer to Catholicism (we Anglicans like to think we are Catholics, but Catholics don’t think we quite make the grade). So I hope you find some of what I have to say helpful–of course check it out with “real” Catholics!

I think it’s awesome that your relationship with a Protestant is making you attend Mass more regularly and studying Scripture more (other practices you might consider: attending daily Mass at least some weekdays; praying the Liturgy of the Hours; or praying the Rosary–the first two of these help expose you to more Scripture, as can the Rosary if you use a “Scriptural Rosary” that gives you texts to meditate on for each mystery).

One thing to bear in mind: while many Protestants use the term “born again” to describe a religious experience, Catholics understand the phrase to refer to baptism. The phrase comes from John 3:3. It can be also translated as “born from above”–in fact that’s probably a better translation, though it’s possible that the Gospel writer intended the word to be ambiguous, since either meaning works well. Two verses later, Jesus talks about being born “of water and the Spirit.” In the Catholic understanding, this is referring to baptism, which involves the physical element of water being used by the Holy Spirit to put God’s life within us. (Your fiance won’t like this interpretation, most likely–he may argue that the “water” is just symbolic, or even that it refers to amniotic fluid and thus the “first” rather than “second” birth, an interpretation I have always found truly bizarre.)

Bottom line: if you are baptized, you have been born again. Your fiance will disagree, but that’s what the Catholic Church teaches. You shouldn’t give up the term “born again.”

Here’s one way to explain it: as a Catholic, you believe that you are saved by God’s grace, not by your own efforts. (Your fiancee will be happy to agree that we are saved by grace and not works.) When you were baptized, you didn’t do anything. You were probably a baby (since you say you were raised Catholic). But God did something. Yes, you have to respond to God’s grace–not just in one moment but throughout your entire life. But being “born again” is God’s act, not ours.

If your fiance tells you that what really counts isn’t baptism but “accepting Jesus into your heart,” then point out that “accepting Jesus into your heart” is a work–something you do. He probably thinks that Catholics believe in salvation by works while he believes in salvation by grace. Obviously you don’t want to fall into a “gotcha” approach–but it’s helpful to stress that as a Catholic you do believe in salvation by grace, and that the sacraments, which he probably thinks are “man-made works,” are really just the ways God graciously works in our lives using material things.

any reader of intelligence knows that some things Jesus said were anabolic (if thats the correct spelling) which means they could of been taken 1 of 2 ways, for e.g ‘call no man father’…did he mean literally or not.

Good point. Obviously if you really take it literally, it would mean not to call your earthly father father!

I think you’re doing a good job thinking critically about what your fiance and his friends are telling you.

Is there anyone out there who could help me with any amazing quotes to justify what we believe is the TRUTH.

Here’s the bigger picture: Catholics don’t need to see Scripture as a collection of “quotes.” Protestant fundamentalists rely on that, because they see Scripture as a kind of encyclopedia that you can look up and get the “right answer.” That doesn’t really match the structure and purpose of Scripture–it’s a collection of stories, poetry, laws, letters, and many other things. But if they reject Sacred Tradition, then that’s all they’re left with. (Not all Protestants do reject Tradition altogether, but that’s another issue.)

As a Catholic, you have access to Tradition, which is the framework for Scripture. You understand Scripture in the context of Tradition. So you may not want to argue in terms of isolated quotes, but in terms of the overall themes of Scripture as interpreted by the Tradition. That may frustrate your fundamentalist friends, but you can’t help that. Obviously you need to be able to talk about specific passages of Scripture, but you should always be relating them to the overall narrative.

They have their own Tradition–the problem is that they may not recognize it. They have unspoken principles that determine which bits of Scripture get to be used to interpret the other bits. So, for instance, they may tell you that baptism doesn’t save us because Scripture says that only faith saves us. But who said that faith and baptism stand over against each other? In Acts 2:38, Peter tells people to “repent and be baptized” in order to be saved–no mention of faith. Does that mean that faith isn’t involved? Of course not! (Some fundamentalists will tell you that faith isn’t mentioned here because the people were Jews, and Jews were saved in a different way from Gentiles. That’s a terribly mistaken way of reading Scripture, but no need to deal with that unless that’s the view your fiance holds, which it may not be.) Repentance, faith, and baptism are all part of the Biblical picture. They aren’t in competition with each other. Your friends may not care, but Martin Luther, who invented the idea of “justification by faith alone,” also believed that baptism saves us. . . .

God bless,

Edwin

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