What about the private revelations/miracles of non-Catholic religions?

I have a question.

What are we to make of the private revelations and miracles that happen in other faiths that are not Catholic?

I’m not satisfied with “They are lying” or “They are ignorant enough to believe in it.”, etc.

I am assuming that there are some PRs out there from different faiths that are not just propaganda, or the product of mass hysteria, or mass ignorance due to some con artist.

I understand that PRs and miracles are not a deposit of the faith, but if other faiths have the same types of PRs and miracles as well, how can we assure our Catholic faith is true, while the other faiths are not true?

For example, the Bible and the Quaran both contain miraculous happenings, but the two books contradict each other.

Ben,

Thanks for your post…

I believe people in other religions do have personal revelations… People had revelations before Jesus we know from the Bible and as you indicated people had revelations after Jesus in the Qur’an…

I don’t think the Bible and the Qur’an actually contradict each other… The Qur’an supplements some of the stories of the Bible and there are additional prophets mentioned.

But consider that the Bible and the Qur’an as Holy Books are also a lot alike one another…Now a Holy Book like the Bhagavad Gita is probably a lot different from the Bible…

Consider that all the major religions have similarities… I found this to be true when I became involved with my local Interfaith Council where I live.

As to miracles we have to be careful… Miracles are like signs.

You may recall the Gospel of Mark:

*8:11 And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him.

8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

8:13 And he left them, and entering into the ship again departed to the other side.

*From the Baha’i Writings:

Observe: those who in appearance were physically alive, Christ considered dead; for life is the eternal life, and existence is the real existence. Wherever in the Holy Books they speak of raising the dead, the meaning is that the dead were blessed by eternal life; where it is said that the blind received sight, the signification is that he obtained the true perception; where it is said a deaf man received hearing, the meaning is that he acquired spiritual and heavenly hearing.

This is ascertained from the text of the Gospel where Christ said: “These are like those of whom Isaiah said, They have eyes and see not, they have ears and hear not; and I healed them.”[1]

[1 Cf. Matt. 13:14 and John 12:40-41.]

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 100)

I’ve yet to know of any miracles in the Protestant faith. By that I mean, apparitions or such.

There’s a supermegahyper Protestant “center” that is near here. The pastor there often has private revalations and the gift of prophecy through dreams. My co-workers go crazy for this guy.

I looked him up online and his private revelations are very, very abstract dreams. He claimed while sleeping he had a vision of “buildings falling and there was a great fire”, therefore it was End Times…so on and so forth.

Protestants get private revelations, but they need to be discerned like those of anybody else, including Catholics.

I used to be Presbyterian, and the pastor I had then was one of the wisest and most prophetic men I’ve met.

If he said he thought something was going to happen, it almost invariably did. And the only way he could say the things he did was if God was telling him, as the devil can’t foresee the future, other than to put two and two together better than we can.

I’ve related this story before, but I’ll go through it again to make my point.

I suppose it was close to the end of his life, but he one day commented, “I think you’ll be doing a cleaning job for a short time. You won’t like it much, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost.

Now that was probably circa 1990 or 91, as he died in January 1992.

I thought it was silly, even though I knew how accurate he was, after knowing him for 8 or 9 years be that time.

At the time I had an admin job in the state government, and had no intention of doing cleaning. But I lost that job (which he also predicted, saying “I think there’ll be a bit of a conspiracy against you and you’ll lose your job”, and “You’ll make a silly mistake and they’ll use that to get rid of you.”). I think there was a bit of a conspiracy against me, and I did make a silly mistake. I lost the admin job in 1995.

Fast forward to 2006, and I was doing a cleaning job. I didn’t like it much, and only did it for about 4 months (“not long”). That was the first part of his prediction.

I was being shown around an old store in Ipswich for the first time by the cleaner who was leaving, and he suddenly remarked, “This place is haunted.” I later found out a former manager had committed suicide in the basement circa the 1960’s. And things used to happen in the store.

The other clearner was a bit scared of being there at night. He claimed that one night all the stock just jumped off the shelves and landed on the floor. He also said something used to push the very heavy buffer with him (probably 200 or more pound in weight) as he could sometimes push it with his little finger.

Anyway I got around to phoning the local priest a couple of years later. He said he’d say a mass, but I had this sense of unease about whether he did or not. After all I was just a strange voice on the phone with a strange story to tell, and I couldn’t give him much detail about the suicide - no name, unknown date etc.

But in 2010 I happened to notice a Fr. Michael Grace on this forum. I looked up his biography on the forum, and he was an Australian priest, the only one I think I’d seen on the forum, which is predominantly American.

Guess which church he was located at, out of all the Catholic Churches in Australia? Yep - the very same Church where I’d phoned the senior priest in 12008.

The 2009-10 Catholic directory listed 1349 parishes in Australia, so that gives some idea of the odds against it. So here I am, with the old pastor’s prediction having relevance to the US based Catholic Answers Forums.

Via the forum facilities, I emailed him the story and asked if he’d say a mass. He assured me he would, and I left it at that. This time I felt a bit more assured.

But a few months ago I was at the Jimboomba Church of our parish (one of 3 churches) and decided to buy a “Catholic Leader”, our local Catholic rag. Actually something seemed to push me to buy it, as I normally don’t.

On around page 5 or 6, here’s a photo of Fr. Michael Grace at a wine and cheese evening raising funds for a right to life function. What interested me however was that he was now the parish priest in Wilston. And the reason that interested me was that when the old pastor made the original prediction, I was going to the Wilston Presbyterian Church, no more than a few hundred metres from the Catholic Church where Fr. Grace was now domiciled.

So I emailed him again, just to point out this interesting coincidence.

A couple of days later, I got an email back saying, “… just to raise the spookiness level another notch, Jimboomba was my home church before I went into the seminary…”

Hmmmm.

I’m still waiting to see where all this leads apart from being a very unusual set of circumstances. But I think I can honestly say the most prophetic man I’ve met was a Presbyterian, Methodist trained pastor named Rev. Robert Missenden.

Protestants get private revelations. God knows His people, and He can speak to them whenever He wants.

Well, I was thinking in response to the question that I have never heard of a convincing Protestant private revelation or miracle, but you’ve flat out proven me wrong!

Great story. Thanks Bob!

:thumbsup::slight_smile:

You must realize when you post these things that Catholics believe that Jesus Christ IS the second person of the Trinity and the only begotten Son of God.
We do not believe he is an ascended master,angel,or simply a messenger,but God incarnate.
Therefore His miracles were true miracles not just relativistic as Bahais believe.
Bahais are very similar to freemasons in that they see all religions as the same and Jesus as merely a prophet.

That being said,the Holy Spirit can work through other religions and even those of no religion,but He always reveals the truth of Jesus Christ. If the spirit denies Jesus it is NOT from God.

There’s actually an additional personal revelation to the story. He also said “I think you might have seen this ghost before”.

Now for the life of me I couldn’t think what he was talking about, but after the event his additional comment made sense.

Way back circa 1970 I sometimes used to go camping with my father outside a locality called Legume just over the border in New South Wales. To get there we’d travel via Ipswich, Warwick and Killarney.

These days there’s a bypass and has been for quite some time, so I wouldn’t need to go through Ipswich to make the same trip again from where we lived at that time. But back then we needed to go through the centre of Ipswich, both ways, although we could have gone via Beaudesert and Queen Mary Falls. But that would have taken a lot longer.

After the event happened, I cast my mind back to one particular trip when we were coming home again, and driving down Brisbane Street in Ipswich. It was probably a Sunday or long weekend Monday, or we would not have been camping. As such, the town was pretty deserted as the shops would have been shut, and there was no Sunday trading back then.

I still remember though seeing this bloke standing on the footpath with this resigned, frustrated look on his face, and carrying a brief case. As we went past I looked at him, and he looked me. I kept watching him for some reason, and he turned and walked into one of the shops. Trouble was the door was closed at the time.

It gave me the heebie geebies, and I did my best to forget it, thinking I must have had some sort of nervous twitch.

But years later the story made sense, in light of his prediction.

Now I’d never spoken to him about that episode, but somehow he just knew, and said so.

He predicted his own eldest son’s “health breakdown” (had a stroke about five years later); my sister’s death (“I don’t think your sister will live very long” - she died of leukemia in 2005 aged 45); the Port Arthur gun massacre (1996 I think “I think there’ll be a massacre at Port Arthur. They’ll use that to bring in gun control”); that I’d become Catholic , a black US president; the Second Gulf War (“I think there’ll be a second Gulf War. The Americans will have had enough of Saddam Hussein and they’ll get rid of him. But I think they’ll lose a few men the next time!”, and it was pretty obvious the way he said “few” he meant more than a “few” - nearly 5000 as it turned out compared to about 120 for total coalition casualties for the first Gulf War).

He was accurate, and the only reason he could be so accurate was that God was telling him.

He even said to me once, in relation to a warning he gave to a young bloke in his congregation, that “I seem to find that if I say something, it happens”. The context in this case was that he’d warned the young bloke about his dangerous motor bike riding. He said it was obvious to everybody, but he felt a bit guilty as he wished he’d warned him a little differently.

What he said was “If you don’t smarten up and start riding your machine more carefully, you won’t last two weeks!” Obviously he didn’t mean it literally, but he said he buried him precisely two weeks later.

It was a good idea to listen to him.

As I said, Protestants can get private revelations. On the other hand, they need to be discerned, because there’s a lot of rubbish out there as well.

PS - And he didn’t believe in the “Rapture”. As far as he was concerned it was Un-Biblical, and that there’d only be one Second Coming.

He thought it was a lot of rubbish.

I guess I should have phrased the question better.

What I meant was non-Christian miracles/apparitions/etc.

cjforJesus…

Thanks for your post! Since the theme of this thread deals with private revelations and miracles of non-Catholic religions I responded above… I welcomed the opportunity to share what Baha’is believe.

I think though it’s possible you may be mistaken about a few things in regard to Baha’i Faith…

Baha’is have no relationship to freemasons…in fact we Baha’is do not belong to any masonic orders. It is forbidden for us to belong to a secret organization.

We do see that the major religions have a common Divine Source but they are not the “same”. Each revelation has it’s own niche in the progressive development of humanity to higher social and spiritual accomplishments hence what we call Progressive Revelation.

Baha’is do not refer to Jesus as “merely a prophet”. I realize some Christians believe in major and minor prophets… You may also know that in Mark 6:4 Jesus alluded to Himself as a prophet…

Baha’is believe Jesus Christ was a Manifestation of God… that God manifested Himself through Jesus… that He was a Mediator between God and man…that He had innate knowledge and perfectly reflected the attributes of God to humanity.

As to the Holy Spirit Abdul-Baha explained:

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the luminous rays which emanate from the Manifestations; for the focus of the rays of the Sun of Reality was Christ, and from this glorious focus, which is the Reality of Christ, the Bounty of God reflected upon the other mirrors which were the reality of the Apostles.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 105

YEs,I understand.From my studies I clearly see that Bahais deny Jesus.They see him on the same level as Buddah and Mohammed. But because they are ignorant of the truth they are not culpable until they understand it.

Indeed.

And the most important event, EVER, --the atoning death of Christ for the remission of sins–is not recognized by Bahais, AFAIK.

Regarding the atonement:

Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole of Creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent spirit . . . He it is who purified the world. Blessed the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.

*(Baha’u’llah Gleanings *86)

Only God, eternal and undefiled, can atone for man’s sins.

Not a “manifestation” of God.

And because we are worshipping the living God, the miracle happen for Protestants is prayers that are answered, you know…

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