What are some of the scientific explanations for the Eucharist?

newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm
Parts of this article speaks of scientific evidence such as the law of indestructibility…This article has to do with the Real Presence.although I do not think it is exactly what you are looking to find.

If you recall where you heard the audio you may be able to find it again. EWTN website has an audio as well as video library of programs. Also many of the regular programs with their own websites may also have program copies available for you.

I am just making this little observation. Some things look different yet have the same chemical makeup such as ice and water (H2O) or diamonds © look very different than pure carbon in other forms…If appearances can be different while substance is the same, why can’t the reverse also be possible? If God can make the world from nothing, why could He not do something so simple by comparison as to change the substance of something while the outward appearance remains? It is reasonable to believe in the Transubstantiation even without “scientific proof.” Is it reasonable to limit the ability of God to only what can be proved?

Is the originator of this thread thinking of Eucharistic Miracles of this World.There are are 140 such cases approved by the Church and in some there is is medical and scientific evidence that Human blood was identified in the Hosts.Anyone can seach for Eucharistic Miracles of the World and see for themselves the scientific and Medical evidence available

We are both in extreme agreement over the divinity of the Eucharist. But your idea of science is grossly corrupted by the philosophies (misphilosophies) of the Reformation and the Enlightenment. These are not catholic philosophies. During this period the Church was separated from the state, and over time removed from science, philosophy, and education. I’d recommend reading some old science, and some old philosophy, Augustine’s Confession is phenominal. Science is merely man’s attempt to study and comprehend the world that God has created. Gravity was not created by Newton, it was set in place by our Creator, and understood by Newton. Science is not something man can alter or create, only measure and try to comprehend. Science cannot be separated from God, regardless of our attempts to separate the 2. It is the search of truth, which is the foundation of philosophy, which at it’s core is the basis of religion. 3 different routes to come to the same conclusion. Whether or not science glorifies God depends on whether or not it is true and factual science. Many scientific theories deny the truth. Christ is the way, truth, and light. Do not allow the atheists to overtake science, science is merely the study of creation. Catholics should use it to every end which is possible, God’s creation proclaims his holy name. Do not forget this. May the peace of Jesus Christ lead us to the truth.

Here are sum of Einstein’s stuff if it help’s.

myweb.brooklyn.liu.edu/mcuonzo/einstein.htm

catholic.org/printer_friendly.php?id=2208&section=Featured+Today

There is a story I herd of Einstein doing a paper on “matter in matter” useing the Eucharist as proof. If any one of you con find it email me at: eddiev.03@gmail.com
For I will love to read it.

I think you are working real hard to try to construct a strawman or create a tension where there is none. I don’t know of a single Catholic who thinks science need be directed against God and His principals. I myself am a scientist and I know that science as long as it is directed toward truth in its own domain of study (*material world") then it can never be at odds with the its Creator – except if it tries to strip human dignity to get to truth and starts objectifying life in terms of mere biological entities. What most of us on the other side of this discussion are simply pointing out is that science can not ever find spiritual truth since it is fundamentally a physical truth seeking branch of study. That is not to say that certain divine principles seen in nature (e.g. unity, order, beauty etc.) do not lend themselves to describing spiritual concepts by symbolic inference or inspire us to draw parallels in the spiritual domain. Not at all. But no scientist who lacks also a faith in God or a mind illuminated by faith will ever express these findings in scientific terms but in material terms.

As physicists dig ever deeper into peeling away the onion of matter I think some scientists are starting to see now that there is something wholly “other” that is keeping it all together. But none of these will ever say "aha - there is God’ or say “aha - God is doing this”. These will always seek to express truths using material or abstract concepts that are wholely seperate from a divine will and an omniscient and omnipotent God since they can not prove Him nor would they be accepted in a field that is not oriented toward metaphysical and spiritual concepts.

Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is the closest science will ever come to admitting that they can not observe some things and know some things in the material world. This is where God, in the small quantum of time related to plank’s constant is where God can do anything at all in the physical world and never be seen or observed by human eye. A person could travel to a distant galaxy and be back again in this interval of time and appear as never missing if there was a transport mechanism that could achieve this. Matter can be created and annihilated at mere thought or conjecture in this interval and no laws would be broken. It’s an area that alchemists of the old age would glory in. But God is more than mere statistics and probability - He is in COMPLETE CONTROL of everything both inside and outside of time. Science will never find him - just observe his works and try to emulate them.

BF

Science will only be able to identify that the accidents of eucharist are human in the case of God changing the accidents to correspond to the underlying substance of the body and blood (a miracle of the senses only for all we know) or else prove that the accidents are bread and wine. In the first case this should be no surprise since afterall Jesus was a real human. But science will never be able to prove the other substances - His soul and divinity. His divinity could not be seen by the naked eye without a lens of faith or by another sign - such as a radiant transfigured body. But in the second normative case we already know that the accidents of bread are no mere illusion but are real bread - we just do not understand the mystery of how the accidents can appear as one thing but be a wholely different underlying substance.

BF

Thanks for your reply, I will be chewing on my humble pie for a while. You did a superb job of explaining yourself. I apologize if I came across argumentative. The point I was trying to make was that science at one time in the west was used to reinforce the faith, and I hope that one day we can reestablish that. Unfortunately you don’t change the status quo without causing tension. Any tension created was of a goodhearted manner. Peace.

Transubstantiation cannot be proved from scientific argument.
There is no compelling proof from philosophy, it is purely a truth of Faith, and not a truth of reason. The effective cause of Transubstantiation is the Free Will of God. This cannot be established through scientific research, but can only be known on the basis of Divine Revelation only. Transubstantiation is not an object of natural knowledge, but an object of faith only.

2 interesting volumes:“This is my body, this is my blood. Miracles of the Eucharist, Volumes 1 & 2” Bob and Penny Lord, Journeys of Faith.

ISBN 0-926143-02-6
ISBN 0-926143-33-6

or…

A further possibility is that what makes the flesh and blodd is the extension of Christ’s soul to matter. however since the soul is divinized ie glorified, it can exhibit capabilities byond what we normally ascribe to it. eg it can manipulate the substance of matter itself

So transubstantion is thechange of matter unassociated with the spiritual to that of matter associated with the soul and Divinity of Christ our Lord.

peace
steve

=Odell;6595090]I have heard some of the arguments but have forgotten. Dr Garindi I think that is his name had a scientific approach but can’t remember. I’m sure there are more please share

Search “Eucharistic Miracles” you’ll find all the evidence a honest an logical person will need.

Transubstantiation is certainly purely a matter of faith.Having said that when one’s faith is subtantiated by evidence as in the Miracle at Lancianowhere Blood and flesh was found it strengthens one’s faith.These accidents as you call them has to be done by some unseen hand and why is the unseen hand doing this accident.It is to offer confirmation to the doubting Thomas’s of this world.

Here is a link to a site on Eucharistic Miracles.

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

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