Fellow Catholics and Christians. I would like to discuss personal experiences that anyone has had with the practice of Wicca. How you may have gotten involved? Where it took you? and how you found your way out of it’s grabs? Please focus on your personal experiences and not hear-say experiences, such as I had friend that had a friend, that had a friend. OK?
In college I once had the magical value of consuming menstural blood explained That was a less than pleasent experience. Actually, that in and of itself wouldn’t have been so bad but my lecturer took the liberty of opening the small frige in her dorm and showed how she stored menstrual blood for later consumption.
usually Wicca is a non-bloody insipid hippy version of witchcraft, I am surprised at the menstrual blood thing. But maybe she was not Wiccan per se, or a particular tradition of it. I was a practicing witch, but not Wiccan. I was Strega. I used menstrual blood for sacrifice and spells but not consumption–atleast not my own.
I did not have any bad experiences exactly, except the obvious walk in complete darkness sorta thing. I was raised in a fundamentalist ‘Christian’ cult as a child but my family had a dark side and I was deeply involved in the occult and worked with demons years before I ever got involved in pagan reconstructionist witchcraft. After my experiences with demons it was a breath of fresh air! But it was all to keep me away from the Light and the love of Christ and His Church. I still struggle against demons—both personal ‘inside’ type and real life personalities and evil entities. For someone who was never involved in that kind of thing before I can see where Wicca and other pagan religions might open the door to demonic activity–but for me it was already wide open.
I think there is a real danger that Wicca appears to be a fresh, new, green earth-based tradition when it is a trick of the Devil to farther separate vulnerable people from Christ. Same with many New Age practices (which I consider Wicca to be more of than actual Witchcraft). There are two paths in paganism (among others) commonly referred to as Right-hand and Left-hand. I was Left-hand. I followed a reconstruct of Old Italian Hereditary family tradition. It was similar to Gypsy/Rrom, Slavic, Greek and modern day Carribean mutations of Catholicism. The saying goes, not every good Catholic wife in Italy is a Strega, but every Strega in Italy is a good Catholic wife!
I finally had the courage with the help of Mother Mary to step out of the shadows completely and walk in the Light.
I was 2nd in charge of a small 4 person office, of the 2 hired to help the one was extremely agitated with me. Would not listen to my directions, wanted to listen to the boss who wasnt always around and needed me to keep the 2 new ones going. The other one wasnt a problem at all.
Anyway this brewed for awhile and I cant remember exactly how it came up but it came out she was wiccan. The boss needed the work done and suggested we go outside and figure out our problems or not come back. So motivated we went out, she told me how it was hard to go through her divorce and maintain custody of her child. Then her faith came up, she started defending herself as I had accused her. In actuality I had said nothing.
Then she let me say well this is what I actually believe, she would counter, I would return, it bacame a good discussion, we both kept trying to convert each other so I said why dont we just agree on what we do and leave the rest. We did. I found it interesting she felt accused the second she met me. I just gave her understanding but remained firm, it was Christ whom I followed.
I even went to a “Party LIte” candle party (sales like tupperware for the boys on the boards) with ohh a few from her coven. I had several friends praying for me and while it went well with her, the seller and the others including her warlock new boyfriend were not exactly fond of her friend, me but remained in good form and polite, I did buy candles.
When I left she was happy I came and we remained friends even later when we were in different depts. She would hug me in the halls. But it wasnt easy going to her house that day the oppression I could feel it like a weight.
Didnt end up a creepy tale or bad but started that way.
I went from a “God stays in church, don’t talk about Him because it’s embarassing” Presbyterian upringing to being thrown into the moral wasteland that was college in the early 90s. Within months I was identifying as a Wiccan, reading up on Shamanism, writing “angelic runes” on my doorposts to keep “unwanted spirits” out.
I hated Christians and all things Christ-related with an allergic fervor, cast spells, mocked all those idiots in organized religion (“Religion kills God” was my oh-so-clever phrase), and was convinced that the whole world was better when the “Mother Goddess” still held the hearts of people.
I was very close with another witch who did not even follow the nominal guidelines of the Wiccan Rede (“an’ it harm none, do whaat ye will”- but, of course, what constituted HARMING someone was left up to the individual), and was into some very dark stuff. When I refused to participate in rituals with her, she threatened to “unleash her personal demons” upon me, or some such thing.
I don’t think it’s coincidental that during this time period I began to drink to blackout, do drugs, and engage in wildly immoral sexual behavior.
It was through the patient, gentle, and unceasing pursuit of our Lady that I was brought to the healing light and Truth of Christ (which always makes me chuckle when people who don’t “get Mary” accuse us of worshipping her. If I’d wanted to worship her, I’d have done so as a Wiccan. Our Lady truly only ever leads souls to Christ), and ultimately to the graces of His Church.
You can dress the devil up in flowing robes and dance with him at Beltaine, you can call him the Green Man or the Horned God and pretend that it’s not the devil, and that’s just fine with him. He still gets what he wants, and the more lies you tell yourself, the less he has to.
Thats good, it would be good if more people got that.
oh I agree, demons are notoriously lazy. they rarely create situations themselves they just use the ones we have created for ourselves and take the credit.
I’ve not declared myself as pagan or Wiccan but I sure did practice some things without thinking about what it really was. My time in the early to mid 90’s in college was a wasteland of moral decay. (And that’s putting it nicely). I was involved with people that had no moral guideposts except what Wiccan’s believed. I didn’t come back to the Church until the very late 90’s but I still had and have issues that keep coming back to haunt me. I did write a thread about a month ago about this and I got some good advice about personal deliverance.
I do have to admit that I was on a cloth diapering chat board and we had a thread that basically split the board into Christians versus Pagans. It was really horrible and I am a firm believer that the Wiccans that told me if I don’t back off my belief and acknowledge that what they are telling people is true (I still don’t believe you can be a “Christo-Pagan”), they’ll do me harm. Well, the next two months after that, I really did experience some things that I believe they’ve done. I had experiences of seeing forms hovering around my house, my middle child was experiencing “sightings” (she’s pretty perceptive, if you know what I mean), I’ve experienced forms following me and doing things in my house to let me know they’re there. I firmly believe that these “things” would have done more damage had I not had my wall rosary up by the door (it was blessed by PJPII), and the last time I saw them was when I went around the house literally spraying a huge water bottle spritzer that I had filled with holy water. The reason I believe it was them was because about a month later, I started to get PM’s from them saying “Hey, how’s things going around your house?” and sign it with a :rotfl: smiley. Trust me when I say these were NOT women I’d bother having a conversation with, let alone inform them as to how things were going around my house with personal information. The only thing I told them all was "Why are you concerned. It’s amazing the protection the communion of saints can provide. "
I’ve stopped hanging out at the forums in which they frequent. It takes alot to rattle me, but that bothered me, especially when you start messing with my children.:mad:
I grew up with a Mormon father and a Southern Baptist mother. They tried for most of my childhood to find a church that they could both agree on. It never happened, and my sisters and I were exposed to alot of different denominations and belief systems that classified themselves at the true Christian Church. The only thing we never tried was the Catholic Church, because according to my dad Catholics aren’t Christians they worship the devil and that really old guy in Rome :rolleyes: Anyways I grew up thinking the Christians were a fairly hypocritical bunch. The only ones that seemed to agree with each other with the extremely fundamentalist churchs, and they scared me. So when I got to college, or maybe it was my senior year in high school, I was introduced to Wicca. Don’t really remember how, but I started reading about it and was amazingly similar to what I had grown up with, but they seemed to accept their differences and say it was okay. It also put a large value on the self.
What can I say. I was in college and pretty much the world revolved around me I read everything I could get my hands on. I practice what I could (although never did I do any ritual needing blood, yuck :eek: ) But after a few year I realized that I wasn’t growing as a person. Also Wicca and other pagan paths (although not all) are extremely focused on the self to the exclusion of others. It can be exhausting to be that self-centered all the time. I figured it was time to start looking at other relgions again and eventually was lead home.
I can’t say that I really had “bad” experiences. God knew that I needed to be humbled and given what I thought I desired in order to open up my heart to his love. I look back and wonder what was I thinking, but I don’t necessarily regret it. Without the experiences I had I don’t think I would be a Catholic right now. It would have taken me alot longer to find the truth.
Do you think the Green Man, or the Horned God, is the devil because (1) it tells its followers to do evil deeds, or (2) it is a non-Christian idea of the Divine?
Are there Right-Hand Stregas? If so, do you consider those Stregas to be in the dark still?
no Stregheria is always a left-hand path. I consider all pagans to be in the dark. Maybe not all are in active association with dark spirits, but they are atleast in the dark as far as ignorance of truth and love and light is concerned, even the ones who consider themselves ‘white-lighters’ like Wiccans. The Devil and his demons have the ability to transform themselves into ‘angels of light’ and they are not always diabolical in their dealings, sometimes they are just a distraction that keeps Christ at a distance in someone’s life.
I know this is for Cari, but I wanted to mention that the Horned God or the Greenman or any of his other various names has not to my knowledge ever told anyone to do evil deeds other than immoral ones that are not considered immoral to pagans…and in the role of a "Father Nature’ type deity he would be the non-Christian idea of the Divine. A consort to the Lady (aka the Lord) who make up the core pagan heirarchy.
One thing that many people do not understand is that the good things I loved my deities for I found in the Holy Trinity—I just didn’t know they were there. Pagans do not love their gods for bad reasons. They usually start out learning to hate the Christian God and look for a substitute they can love. We all want to love God. We all want to know God. People turn to Paganism because of the failure of Christianity in their eyes.
The Horned God filled a hole in heart. But I realized it was not a real filler. The leak came back. Only Jesus has healed the hole.
This is kinda long…but I have a lot to say on the subject…
I was introduced to Wicca by a well-meaning but misguided friend of mine when I was fifteen. It was during a time in my life in which I had just experienced two very bad, quite dramatic events. I was so angry at God I stopped everything. Stopped praying, stopped going to Church, stopped even thinking about and loving God. I was so angry and bitter, I cursed His name. I felt like if He could abandon me, I was going to abandon Him.
During that time, I read more and got deeper into Wicca. It appealed to me because I’m a huge lover and respecter of nature. (Still am) It also appealed to me because it was fluffy. It was all about what felt good to me at the time. Me, me me me. I was a selfish teenager. All I could think about what me and how I was feeling.
Slowly and gradually, I had adopted a magickal name for myself, performed rituals, prayed, and was the most miserable person I could find. I prayed to the “goddess” and felt nothing. I did rituals and felt nothing. Knew nothing. I knew this was wrong, but I didn’t know where else to turn. I felt totally abandoned by the “gods” that were supposed to love me. I sunk deeper and deeper into depression. My morals all but disapeared, I became very depressed, angry and even to the point in which I was comprehending ending my own life.
A little over a year passed in this way. The summer came, and my best friend wanted me to go on a retreat with her. She knew I was depressed, she also knew I was ‘dabbling’ in dark things…she knew about the things that had happend, she dragged me on this retreat, kicking and screaming…I went…and well…I slowly began to realize that all these thousands of other Catholic kids seemed to have something that I so desperately craved…God. I wanted GOD! I craved Him…I wanted Him so desperatly, I was willing to do anything. I started praying to Our Lady to help me stay where I was supposed to. I started attending Mass again, started reading the Bible, started reading the Catechism, started praying, started using the Rosary, started listening to good music, I wanted so badly to be in that place of love and peace that I knew as a child. And slowly…I got there.
I’m almost nineteen now, and ever since coming back to the Church at sixteen, I only slipped from the True path one other time. Again, I felt the devil calling me away, and stupidly I went…started falling back into my old habits. Re-reading old wiccan texts I forgotten to throw away…Luckilly, I had a much firmer understanding and beleif in God than I did before, and I was able to overcome that temptation through prayer and of course…Our Lady! I have since thrown away everything having to do with the subject…'m on a good path, I’m just really scared to be tempted again.
So yeah…all I gotta say is that Wicca is a really tempting and easy path to fall into. It’s easy because it’s selfish. Gosh, it felt good to get that out. Sorry for the length.
Last week I went to Salem to the Witch Museum. I expected it to be an accurate account of the witch trials, but it was really anti-Christian (esp. anti-Catholic) and pro-wiccan propoganda. It talked about how the Church in Europe burned supposed witches, too, like Joan of Arc, but it failed to mention that she was exonorated and later canonized, it implied that the Church hated witches because they hated women (depsite the fact that men were accused of being witches too), it claimed that all mid-wives, who were the first targets, were all secretly ancient celtic priestesses, etc. Then it talked about how peaceful witches today actually are, and how there is nothing to be feared, and that they are just practicing ancient religion and care about the environment.
For a more reasoned, scholarly balance to that mess, take a look at chass.colostate-pueblo.edu/natrel/pom/old/POM5a1.html (note that it was written by a Pagan).
A couple of things to bear in mind when reading these posts, particularly for those who have never met anyone who identifies as Pagan/Neopagan of some form:
- If I started a thread that asked for folks’ bad experiences with Catholicism (or any other religion), would I be likely to get a very representative sample of what Catholicism is really about or like?
- I am seeing a relatively common thread of these experiences happening in the teen/college years (though not all).
I would also like to remind those in this thread that Wiccans do not represent all Neopagans, regardless of how much they are synonymous in the current media. There are fruitcakes, extremists, poseurs, those out for power and the ability to manipulate others for their own ends and just plain mixed up folks in all religions, including Christianity. As there is not a central dogmatic authority in Neopagan religions, it’s even harder to combat a lot of the absolute dreck that is out there in the name of Neopagan religions, and even more so in the name of Wicca. Yes, unfortunately, a lot of that dreck tends to the self-centered and/or “fluffy” end of the spectrum, because it’s easier than following the real tenets of a serious religion, but the other end of the spectrum is out there as well.
I will say that after many years in the Neopagan community, I have never once been asked to do anything with blood, menstrual or other. I do not follow the path I do for any reasons other than the calling of my Gods and my focus is on Them, not myself. It’s not about what I don’t believe, but what I do. Many Neopagans also do not come from a Christian background.
Authority is what makes the Catholic Church stand. True freedom comes to submitting to the Will of God and not to one’s own will.
If they are raised in Western civilization thier cultural background is Chirstian to deny that is to deny nearly two thousand years of history. Even Jews and Muslems raised in the West have the influence of Christian Culture being part of thier everyday life - good or bad.
The reason neo-pagans are called neo-pagans is because they are trying to reconstruct something that died out more then a thousand years ago. It’s not new and really has no true connection to paganism, it attracks those that that fail to see the freedom of Christianity.
Besides please don’t derail this thread, it is about people’s personal experiences with Wicca. if you want to debate neo-paganism vs Christianity then please start a new thread.
I am not attempting to derail the thread, simply to provide some context based on my personal experiences with Wicca and other Neopagan religions for those who may be reading it who have never encountered a Neopagan in person (because I am well aware that there are a lot more folks reading this than are posting–16 posts vs 147 views). Much like I would expect you to do if I put up a thread that asked for bad experiences with Catholics in a forum where most of the folks were likely to be non-Catholic, likely to have a limited experience of Catholics in real life and all the posts were about abusive priests or some crackpot who was far from the norm. Trying to help folks see that there is more there than a kid dabbling to rebel or the stereotype they may have encountered in the media or through their religious teachings.
Personally, I do not find much compelling in Wicca, but then I don’t find much compelling in most other religions, which is why I don’t follow them. I prefer a religion based on worship and piety rather than manipulation of forces. However, I don’t find the majority of Wiccans I have met to be evil, self-serving, obsessed with blood or intent on harming anyone. I may think many of them are misguided, are a bit uptight about the letter vs the spirit of the rituals or need a closer acquaintance with actual history, but that’s about the worst of it (could say much the same about many Christians I have encountered). I have met many more who are serious followers of a serious religion with a lot more depth than is usually credited to it.
While I can’t relate any “bad” experiences, I can relate some personal knowledge.
I have a couple friends who have been Wicca for better than 30 years…they are now in their mid 50’s. They have two daughter, both at University, one in a masters program the other in a ministerial program…at a Catholic influenced university, Marylhurst.
They both are leaders in their coven, high priest and high priestess. They belong to a “Garderarian” group. They are active in the environmental community and social justice.
They have no “devil” or “satan”…their Gods are revered in their lives and morals…I am very impressed with them as people. We’ve been friends for over twenty years. They are kind and considerate. They have a deep spiritual life.
Paganism/Wicca pre-80’s “fluff bunny” is very different. It’s not a “feel good…dance around the bale fire and make sweet chants”…it’s very active…and they wrestle with some deep issues such as civil rights for all peopl, social/economic injustice, and a ministry to the poor in thier neighborhood.
There is no “evil” present.
I find it strange that a Quaker would condone or be close friends with nudist pagan-witches, unless of course you are one those so-called Quaker-Pagans?:shrug: