What Bad Experiences you have had with Wicca?


#21

What do mean by “fluff bunny”/ “fluffy” ?:shrug: ?


#22

Just a bit on my experiences with Wicca. I was raised a devout if nondescript protestant, given a good sunday-school education, baptised at 13, etc. For me, it was always going through the motions. I don’t reacll ever having a sincere interest in jesus, or uttering a sincere prayer to the christian figures.

When I was a young teen, I discovered ‘the occult’. Being a voracious reader I plowed through what was available in popular libraries. I was fascinated, and began to find what practices I could - tarot cards, astrology, the I Ching. By high school (think 1969 - 73) there were starting to be books teaching solitary students how to practice magic, witchcraft and the newer version of witchcraft being called ‘Wicca’. I did a number of teen experiments, and began to consider myself a witch. In those days one was taught that one couldn’t become wiccan without a direct initiation from another wiccan, so I began to search for a group. I found other independent seekers, and worshipped for a few years in a sort of non-denominational Pagan/Wiccan group.

In 1981 I was initiated into the traditional craft. That group sometimes used the term ‘wicca’, but generally considered themselves to be traditional witchcraft. For the next dozen years or so I practiced this tradition of the Craft - I was married in it, led public worship and teaching as time went by, and built a life that involved home ownership, published material and a large circle of fun friends and spiritual allies.

In the early/mid nineties I made a change of Pagan sect, and took up a form of neopagan ‘Druidism’. This has some ritual and theological differences from wicca, but is part and parcel of the modern neopagan movement. I still practice devoutly in that system, attending public rites, keeping home worship, studying and teaching, etc.

Throughout all this, I have been blessed by the gods and spirits, my life has been filled with love and friendship, productive outlets and artistic expression, community service and the work of building bridges to the divine (the gods and spirits). Most of the Pagans I know live happy, balanced, fulfilled lives, and have no interest in ‘coming out’ from religions that serve them well.

My theology is not yours. My religion is different from yours. Still I am seeking to work with the divine as certainly as you are. Whether you think so (or your church does) or not.
Ian


#23

Not strange at all…they too possess a measure of the Light, the Light that enlightens all people to one degree or another. I see the Presence of the Light in their lives, the kindness they exhibit, the social concerns they are deeptly invloved with.

I am a Friend…while I may lean to the left, my theology is Christocentric…not pagan centered.

The Light Within is universal in scope, Truth is Truth, no matter where the “truth” may appear. The Light of Christ shines in thier hearts, even though they may not recognize Him, the Light is present.

I have attended as an observer to several of their “sabats”, not too much takes place during those gatherings that doesn’t have it’s counterpart in most liturgical churches, Catholic included, that I have visited. Of course only the “inner court” members are allowed to attend their “sacred” ceremonies.


#24

“Fluff bunny” tends to be those of Pagan/Wiccan leanings that are into crystals, chanting, wear a pentalce, speak some of the “lingo” but really have no deep spirituality or “meat” to their respective “faith tradition”…they’d be “Easter Christians” or “Christmas Christians”…

“Fluff Bunny” designates a very watered down feel good version of “tree hugging.”


#25

Nice post.


#26

In reality Fluff Bunny is derogative-egotistic term used by Wiccans to put down other Wiccans which they see as either neophytes or practicing non-pure aspects of the"Craft" which is really comical since Wicca and /or neo-Pagan spirituality is made up as you go since in reality it is only decades old ( for many -days old) and has no true form, basis nor any true ties to the pagan religions neo-pagans are trying to recreate.

I suspect that you, Karen and Ian are all Fluff Bunnies (maybe all three of you are the same person by your writing styles) that have decided to hi-jack this thread with your Fluffy interpretations of your lovey-dovey idealistic ideas of neo-paganism.

Myself I was first introduced to Wicca, though we didn’t call it that back then, when I was 12 years old in '67, I floated in and out it of with my friends, until I started to flirt with Santanism at the age of 18. Where I saw a friend get so deep into the darkness, that he went to a pawn shop with a couple of shot-gun shells ask to look at a shotgun, then told the clerk he also wanted to look at another behind the counter, while the clerk, who was 8 months pregnant was turned around, he loaded the gun and when she turned around he blow his brains out, in front of her, she almost had a miscarrige.and she probaly still has nightmares about this 30 some odd years later. A couple weeks earlier he was going around offering people money to buy thier souls.

That happened just a few days after I first became a Christian.

Another friend of mine that I had been involved with in the so-called craft started calling himself Diablo, later that year (same year my other friend killed himself) he broke into a 70 year-old-man’s house and murdered him by stabbing him to death dozons of times. He was one of the first bunch of inmates exucuted when the death penalty was reinstated in Texas. He left behind his girlfriend to raise thier baby. That just takes my experience with the so-called peace and love fluff-bunny Wicca to 1974, More later…for I foolishly got caught up into it again…


#27

LOL, Yes I am possessed by Ian and Karen…we channel each other…:whacky:


#28

Let’s see, Ian has actually met my husband at least once, and my husband seemed to be able to tell the difference (short round female who couldn’t really sing or draw her way out of a paper bag vs. tall, bearded, much more musically and artistically talented male), so I don’t think we are the same person (aside from being in entirely different areas of the country). I know I can’t be Publisher because there’s no way I could sit still in silence for an hour :smiley:

Bennie, you are correct that fluffy or fluffy bunny is not the most polite term, I probably shouldn’t have used it. I tend to use it to refer to folks who are merely interested in the trappings or have read one book and suddenly decide they are the final authority on all varieties of Neopaganism and have no interest in admitting that there might be something they don’t know, learning anything further (particularly about actual history), in admitting that it includes responsibility for one’s actions, or that there are less than happy, joyful sides to human experience and spirituality which one’s religion should address. Entirely different thing than simply being a neophyte. I don’t limit it to Wicca, btw, (I would say there are certainly “fluffy” Christians–ones who think that emotional highs and singing choruses is all there is to Christianity) nor am I Wiccan. Interesting that you chose to pretend that you didn’t know what it meant. You should also know that Wicca isn’t the same as Satanism.

I am sorry that you seem to have known some people with serious emotional/mental issues. There are, unfortunately, those with those sorts of issues in any religion or there wouldn’t be the need for chaplains of various religions in prisons.

As to the age of Wicca, I would highly recommend British historian Ronald Hutton’s book, “Triumph of the Moon,” for anyone who has an interest in the topic. Very interesting, very thorough.

Have to disagree that my ideas of Neopaganism are “lovey-dovey.” You (and anyone else, for that matter) are welcome to take a look at my public profile and read any number of posts I have made about Neopaganism in response to misinformation and questions. I’m still not sure how posting my personal experiences with Wicca (which have not been all wonderful, but neither have all my experiences with those of any religion including my own) counts as hijacking the thread given the topic.


#29

Clearly you have no real perception of what wicca, neo-paganism or satanism is, Bennie. People kill themselves and others for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

The wiccan’s I have known are generally well to do, intelligent people. I like them for the most part, even if one of my friends happens to be a bit eccentric. ;p But he and I generally have some of the most interesting discussions.


#30

I do have a clear perception, your assumption that I don’t is error. I have seen the destruction it has had on numerous people, not everyone I have known envolved in wicca, neo-paganism, and satanism have killed themselves or killed others, but over a 40 year period I have seen too many individuals that have gone beyond just being eccentric because of thier involvement in such things. The percentages are much higher of the mental instability of those involved as to what I have noticed of people not involved in those practices at all.

**I’m not a Cradle Catholic that had the good fortune and Grace to be raised in a protected enviroment shielded from the world.(Though most Cradle Catholics have not either, but that is a perception non-Catholics and non-Christians have of Christians in general.) I have lived a bohemian lifestyle for the majority of my life, I have seen it, I done it and I have gone beyond it, praise be to God. In fact in my opinion many that claim that they have not seen the type of things I have with those that practice Wicca are most likely been sheltered from the complete world of Wicca. **

I know that most Wiccans don’t get involved in Satanism, but I have witnessed many that didn’t find what that thought they should have in practicing Wicca that did.

**Yes I think you are trying to hijack and or derail the discussion of the thread by denying others experiences, coming back and saying what they experienced is not a true experience with “Wicca” but it is thier experiences and it was thier involvement with “Wicca” which were bad experiences that had a ill effects on them. Coming back and using the terms “Fluffy” and “Fluff Bunny” just shows that you tried to discount thier experiences as being false. **

The arrogance I find among non-Christians will never cease to amaze me.

Forgive me for my lack of humilty and charity.

Human pride will be ended, and human arrogance will be destroyed. Idols will completely disappear, and the LORD alone will be exalted on that day. Isaiah 2:17


#31

The simple fact is that it is mere bigotry to suggest that Wicca might produce more madness, dysfunction, etc than any other religion. Anecdotes produced by fishing for them don’t outweigh the fairly vast community of wiccans and neopagans living common productive lives.

I’ve been active in the Wiccan and neopagan movement for 30 years, and the claim that Wicca produces dysfunction just makes no sense except as mere bashing.

In some ways, fringe religions do tend to attract more fringe persons, including those with incipient and explicit mental illness. I do think the roman church has its share of kooks, though.


#32

1.The notion of Wicca as a religion is simply silly. It’s something that was made up a few decades ago based on nothing but political ideology combine with pantheism and revisionist version of pagan gods that in no way resemble the ancient gods or the ancient religions that worshipped them. Neither ancient pagans, nor their gods, were fuzzy kittens that ran around with free love and ate granola. Rather they had a taste for war and enjoyed watching people kill each other in the arena for entertainment.

2.It’s true, Wicca is not likely to make someone a lunitic. It is a fringe that merely attracts lunitics. Some people become Neo-Nazis, others join weird cults.


#33

big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with **hatred **and intolerance

I do not hate Wiccans, thus I cannot be a bigot.

As to The church having a lot of kooks, I will agree, but we have been working on that problem for 2000 years and we haven’t given up yet.

:blessyou:
My prayers are for your happiness.


#34

I’d say that pretty much describes your understanding of wicca, though…

Your limited personal experience, filtered through your doctrinaire religion, has led you to entirely misjudge and misrepresent a whole religious path.

Just saying’
Ian


#35

while the intention of the OP may have been to collect stories about Wicca specifically, and to emphasize the occult and demonic aspects of paganism by anecdote—I don’t think it will happen any more or less frequently with Wicca than with any other non-Christian religion.
My experience was that in a psuedo-Christian cult I was deeply involved with demonism and to find a reconstructed neo-pagan religion on getting away from the first group I was RELIEVED of demonic involvment! I would have NEVER come into the Catholic Church or any Christian group again if it were not for my positive experience with the pagan group! The pagans taught me how to see God as a loving, giving, Creator when my experience with Christianity was one of darkness and despair and sin with an angry, jealous, schizophrenic God!
I practiced magic(k) and used tarot and spirit-boards–I did ritual and circles and invoked/evoked gods and goddesses. And I did this for about 7 years exclusively. I never once had a ‘bad’ experience. But the previous 33 years I was physically and sexually abused by demons and humans who professed to be good Christians! The last 5 years I have struggled daily to keep myself from slipping back into those distractions. I must stay busy–I am involved in the Confraternity of the Rosary and a Cenacle of the Divine Mercy and I made a private Consecration to Mary–prayer and readings and listening to tv and radio and pc programs about the Church and good things are a must for me. Forums like this one also help alot.
But honestly I think the OP is looking for something specific that is not really exclusive to Wicca or paganism or witchcraft. Perhaps it is an inaccurate picture of what Wicca/paganism/witchcraft TODAY is. Not saying it isn’t dangeorus, but it is dangerous in a different way than one would think if all you are going by are the medieval tales of the Inquisition. The danger today is in the selfishness and secularitiy of New Age and materialism and impulsivity/promises of immediate gratification and atheistic/humanistic universalism. The danger of picking and choosing -cafeteria style- of your spirituality and forgetting that evil does exist and being distracted from reality-with its rules and laws and uncontrollable and unchangeable elements that you have to learn to obey or pay the consequences of.
Ravyn


#36

The percentages are much higher of the mental instability of those involved as to what I have noticed of people not involved in those practices at all

Perhaps it is so among your particular circle of acquaintances, but I have seen no evidence that it is so among the overall Neopagan community, unless you have specific statistics that show that?

I know that most Wiccans don’t get involved in Satanism, but I have witnessed many that didn’t find what that thought they should have in practicing Wicca that did.

And there are those who claim to be Satanists who did not find what they thought they should have in practicing Catholicism or other religions. I would say that your statement itself does not support the implication that Wicca is Satanic because of this any more than Catholicism is.

**Yes I think you are trying to hijack and or derail the discussion of the thread by denying others experiences, coming back and saying what they experienced is not a true experience with “Wicca” but it is thier experiences and it was thier involvement with “Wicca” which were bad experiences that had a ill effects on them. Coming back and using the terms “Fluffy” and “Fluff Bunny” just shows that you tried to discount thier experiences as being false. **

I would be happy to have you point out where I have denied anyone’s experience or have said that any person’s post on this thread was “fluffy” or that they were a “fluff bunny.” I have simply stated that I have had no such experiences in the years I have been involved in the Neopagan community and that such actions are inconsistent with what I have seen of the majority of those who claim to follow Wicca.

Bad experiences with those who pervert any religion for their own reasons or with those who have a mental or emotional illness that distorts such may indeed have ill effects on a person, but that is not necessarily representative of the majority of religion. The newspapers in recent years have been filled with those who have had bad experiences with members of the Catholic faith, indeed even with clergy of such, and suffered ill effects from those experiences, but this does not mean that I believe that they are representative of all Catholics or all Christians.


#37

I’m not entirely sure yet what the OP’s goal is in posting the question, presumably we will find out eventually.

Just to clarify, the majority of followers of Wicca who are actually interested in it as a religion rather than something to shock and have some idea of their religion’s history will readily admit that Wicca is a new religion, one that did not exist in its current form before the 20th century, and that has nothing to do with the “witchcraft” issue in medieval and later Europe (most of the trials did not actually occur during the Middle Ages, but later—the article I referenced earlier has some good info on the topic). Of course, Christianity was once a new religion as well.

Now there may well be folks out there who are indeed trying to create something based on the stories of the witch trials and calling it witchcraft, but they are not practicing Wicca, nor, honestly, any of the diverse religions with which I am familiar that fall under the umbrella term of Neopaganism .

I do highly recommend the Hutton book I mentioned, as it goes into detail about the societal and philosophical trends in the 19th century that set the stage for the emergence of Neopagan groups, as well as going into a detailed description of the beginnings of Wicca. I found it fascinating.

**The danger today is in the selfishness and secularitiy of New Age and materialism and impulsivity/promises of immediate gratification and atheistic/humanistic universalism. The danger of picking and choosing -cafeteria style- of your spirituality and forgetting that evil does exist and being distracted from reality-with its rules and laws and uncontrollable and unchangeable elements that you have to learn to obey or pay the consequences of. **

I would have to agree that focusing on self-centeredness, impulsivity, materialism, immediate gratification and presuming that everything in the spiritual realm is necessarily benevolently inclined toward humanity and controllable is dangerous, though I don’t see it as limited only to Wicca. Much of that is actually more typical of what I know of New Age spirituality than most of the religions termed Neopagan. I know that my own does not encourage such. Yes, there is some overlap between the two communities, but they are not identical.


#38

yes my points—I was referring to Catholics making the comparison to the medieval times of witchcraft and today’s, not Wiccans. And I think of New Age as being a broad category covering everything from the Enlightenment of the early/mid 1800’s to current times–not just pagan recontruction or neos. Like the ‘Age of Aquarius’ or ‘Age of the Goddess/Mother’.
Ravyn


#39

I think Wicca gets a worse rep than perhaps it deserves because it tends to be the faith that many people turn to when they decide to do something other than Christian. So, it ends up with lots of rebel, flaky types who mostly are out to push peoples buttons.

They may not really be Wiccan, or study and practice it, but they see a TV show, read a magazine article and decide to announce to the world they are Wiccan, on the basis of one pulp pagan book from B&N or one teeny bopper ritual.

Personally, I tend to have a knee jerk eye roll when someone tells me they are Wiccan, because so many times I’ve been so disgusted by the behavior and beliefs of those who self identify that way.

It is the visibility and pop acceptance of Wicca that has been it’s undoing. There are no checks and balances, anyone can claim to be Wiccan and do and say whatever they want.

As is so often the case, it is not the faith that is so awful, its the behavior of those who claim to hold the faith.

I try to keep this in mind when I feel my eyes begin to roll skyward.

Other than that, I don’t really know much about the real teachings of Wicca. I’ve been to a few esbat rituals, and they were serious, respectful, spiritual events. Unfortunately most of my experience has been with large women, clad in black who like to talk loudly about going skyclad and shocking people by announcing they were witches.

I suspect Wicca has oft been hijacked by people for their own agenda, because it is highly visible and has too little organization to protect it.

It’s like when a dog breed gets popular, everyone and their cousin becomes a breeder and starts selling inferior pups.
Sometimes religions suffer most (interiorly) when they seem to be enjoying popularity. A little persecution and obscurity helps keep things real and honest. Weeds out the poseurs and lazy folk. We tend to value most, that which we are required to work for.

cheddar


#40

Here are a couple good links for Catholics and other Christians that want to know more about the Good, bad and the Ugly of Wicca and it’s connection to Darkness.
[/FONT]Dispelling the Charms of Wicca

and [/FONT]Satanism, Witchcraft and Church Feminists

qotes from the article:
“The most important of the initiates to Crowley’s new order was Gerald Gardner (1884-1965), a Freemason who is credited with founding the Wiccan religion, which is composed mostly of converts who came into the “craft” since the early 1960s.”

"It was Crowley, however, not Gardner, who authored the central Wiccan creed: “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.”

My purpose of this thread was not to convert nor debate with Neo-pagans, Witches or pro-neopagans. For I truly believe it is a waste of time to debate, until they are able to see beyond themselves and false wisdom. A forum setting is not the right place for such a debate. I just wanted to allow those that had bad experiences with the Wicca/occult a forum to express those experiences and let others see that there is a danger, there is a devil and he is real and he is our accuser.
**Though Wiccans claim there is no connection to darkness in Wicca, there is, and it is evident by post on this thread. It is hard to now the truth if you discount the true history of the movement and If you don’t know all the players. Wicca produced material will omit or play down the truth of its origins. Wicca does not only reject Christianity but has an anti-Christian origin to its core. **
Inclusion Jesus can say it better then I : Jesus said to them, "If God really were your Father, you would love me, because I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own authority, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to listen to my message. You are the children of your father, the Devil, and you want to follow your father’s desires. From the very beginning he was a murderer and has never been on the side of truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he is only doing what is natural to him, because he is a liar and the father of all lies. John 8:42 - 44


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