What Causes People To Attack?


#21

[quote=Black Jaque]Again, I’m unclear of what you mean by “attack”. There is a great spectrum of “anti-Catholics” out there, who are motivated by a variety of reasons.

Am I motivated to “attack” over something like this? Not unless you consider my words above an “attack” on those people who make one-handed grabs at Communion.
[/quote]

Woa! Black Jaque! I’m sort of thinking along the lines of Puzzleannie’s post type of attacks here below…:

Annunciata:)


#22

[quote=WhiteDove]Sinful human nature? Insecurity about one’s self? Primitive tribalistic attitudes?

Why do folks get so bent out of shape when someone else’s beliefs differ? Usually not because of concern for their souls actually, even if they say that’s the reason. Usually it’s an egotistical reason. Something done to preserve the ego integrity of the person by detracting from another.
[/quote]

WhiteDove,
Perfect description of PRIDE…:hmmm:
Blessings, Annunciata:)


#23

[quote=The Barrister]Lots of reasons, and fear is a driving force…

The biggie: Most really want to be Catholic because the Holy Spirit leads them this way, but once they get here they are looking to Catholicism to validate their actions. Rather than change their lifestyle and beliefs to meet God’s expectations of them, they assume they can change God’s expectations by force of will.
Doesn’t work that way.
[/quote]

Good points!..sounds like shades of Augustine…“But not yet”… :whistle:
Annunciata:)


#24

*what makes people confuse the discipline of apologetics with the discipline of military science, and treat every discussion like a battle with the anti-Christ?
*

Please excuse my ignorance, but I did not follow the previous thread, nor have I seen Puzzleannie’s post before.

Are you considering this quote an attack? I can see what you mean, but I suspect this is more of a sincere question delivered with a sharp needle.

I think there is no way to specifically answer your question except to say that you have to consider each attack, each circumstance, and each attacker then discern their motives.


#25

No! by no means was I considering her post an attack…just her response to my question. Thats all.
I more or less began this Thread due to the way some others respond so angrily to those who worship differently…like the way Charismatics are criticized…or how one might receive Communion (I know I was chastized for how I like receiving on the tongue!)… Soo I thought I would bring this to the forum under my original question.
I’m a convert and I have many friends who are ant-Catholic or former Catholics who do out and out attack!

I think there is no way to specifically answer your question except to say that you have to consider each attack, each circumstance, and each attacker then discern their motives.

Yes! you are probably right about this…but getting it out in the open to discuss…one of the reasons we come here, is a good thing! Blessings, Annunciata:)


#26

Quote:
I think there is no way to specifically answer your question except to say that you have to consider each attack, each circumstance, and each attacker then discern their motives.
Yes! you are probably right about this…but getting it out in the open to discuss…one of the reasons we come here, is a good thing! Blessings, Annunciata:)

Given that, maybe it would help to describe some of the specific attacks, then we can help you discern. Then, armed with a better understanding of the attacker’s motives, you can address such attacks more effectively in the future.


#27

[quote=Black Jaque]Given that, maybe it would help to describe some of the specific attacks, then we can help you discern. Then, armed with a better understanding of the attacker’s motives, you can address such attacks more effectively in the future.
[/quote]

Well for starters you might want to go to this thread and then you tell me whether or not some of these post are attacks or just opinions…
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=18067

Blessings,
Annunciata:)


#28

[quote=Annunciata]Why do anti-Catholics seek to attack the Catholic Faith?
[/quote]

God warned us that Satan would always attack His body, the Catholic Church. Satan tries to destroy our Faith at every chance he gets. anti-Catholics are just pawns of Satan (though they may not know the influence is his).

Why do some Catholics attack the different ways of worshiping within the Faith?

Fear? Bigotry?

The Church has always allowed certain aspects of a culture into it so as to carry on the good things. We use wedding rings today because the Church took a pegan symbol, God cleansed it and made it pure for us to use today. Now we use rings to prove our love for God and His covenent with us in marriage. God cleanses our sins just as He cleans pegan symbols that we turn into good for Him and His glory.

As long as we believe in the Dogma, Faith and Morals of His Church, His body, we are allowed to celebrate that gift in various ways. Diversity is good as long as it is in line with our Faith.


#29

[quote=Annunciata]Why do anti-Catholics seek to attack the Catholic Faith?

Why do some Catholics attack the different ways of worshiping within the Faith?
[/quote]

Why do Catholics attack Protestants ? :slight_smile:

Same reasons, probably:
[list]
*]love of a good fight
*]innate aggressiveness
*]zeal to spread one’s POV
*]desire to serve Christ by bringing people of a different faith to Him
*]dislike of the other person’s religion
*]misunderstandings of that religion
*]repugnance for the moral failings associated with that religion
[/list]- IOW, a great variety of reasons (or, indeed, rationalisations): we Christians are brilliant at sanctifying our basest and most unChristian attitudes; the result being, that we can mesmerise ourselves into thinking that our bigotry is really love. It would be very funny, if it were not so serious.

  1. As to why we criticise each other within the Church: a lot of the time, it’s probably because people want very much to be faithful to Our Lord; to avoid “letting Him down”. And quite rightly - faithfulness to Christ is a Christian basic. And being orthodox, is one form of being faithful.

The problems arise when we try applying this to how the Church lives and worships. Because it involves applying what we know of the Church and her Tradition, to life now; and for some, if X is not in the Tradition of the Church, it’s off-limits; for others, if X is not condemned in the terms in which some Catholics are familiar with it here and now - it’s OK and Catholic and Christian. An example of these two attitudes can be found in the disagreement about the charismatic movement; to name but one.

And to make things really tough, none of us knows it all, or is always wise, always patient; we are a rather helpless and ignorant lot - but that is why we need to be in Christ, and in His Church :slight_smile: ##


#30

Again, people argue out of a base of 2 character flaws:

Ignorance

Arrogance

or sometimes: Both.


#31

[quote=Apologia100]Again, people argue out of a base of 2 character flaws:

Ignorance

Arrogance

or sometimes: Both.
[/quote]

Or just for the sake of doing so…some people can’t ever be wrong and always have to have the last word…and I think that points to PRIDE!
What I can’t understand though, is the venom with which some “good Christian” spew when trying to get their point across?
I know there is such a thing as righteous indignation…Our Lord showed that with the Pharisees and the money lenders in the Temple. But some of these so called arguements go way overboard.
I always wonder what Atheists must think if they come to these boards… :hmmm: Do you think they are saying, “See the Christians how they love”?
Blessings,
Annunciata:)


#32

I couldn’t wade through the entire thread, but from what I did get, I only read one attack. That was from someone who lambasted Catholicism for it’s belief in papal authority. Which was actually a rather worthy criticism though misplaced. Would love to see a response to that one.

However, for much of the thread I read Tru-Devotions arguments against the Charismatic Renewal.

They most certainly were not attacks. Don’t forget the very first post was asking for peoples thoughts on the CR, and Tru-Devotion gave his thoughts. People who support the CR didn’t like Tru-Devotion’s thoughts.

Now, that said, I could see some mistakes or flaws in the construct of Tru-Devotion’s arguments. Namely the premise that if it comes from a protestant background it is wrong. Not always true, it is entirely possible to have pagan and other traditions that we Christianize, then accept.

I share Tru-Devotions skepticism. If the CR is going to prove its mettle, it’s going to have to do a lot more that make people feel good, speak in tongues, and fall to the ground.

The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are: Wisdom, understanding, councel, fortitude, knowlege, piety, and fear of the Lord.

The twelve FRUITS of the Holy Spirit are: Charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, and chastity.

Nothing about tongues and falling to the ground, this is from the Catechism by the way.

If Tru-Devotions skepticism comes from the same place as mine, he remembers a bunch of smiley, happy people that were all high on God. But they lacked good Catechism. We made felt banners, and were taught about warm fuzzies and cold pricklies. And now there’s groups like Voice of the Faithful, Catholics for a Free Choice, and Call to Action that, just like the Charismatic Renewal, say they are Catholic, but they don’t act like it.

So, if the CR wants to gain acceptance it will have to prove itself distinguishable from those other so-called Catholic movements. If you want to defuse Tru-Devotions let him hear more about what CR believes. Hop in the fox-hole with Tru-Devotions and fight the same enemies he’s fighting.

Let’s hear some wisdom, knowlege, and councel, see some fortitude, understanding, piety, and fear of the Lord coming from the CR movement. Clapping hands, speaking tongues, and falling to the ground won’t convince guys like me. Though 30 years of joy may help. Do CR’s exhibit chastity, modesty, and self-control?


#33

[quote=Black Jaque]I couldn’t wade through the entire thread, but from what I did get, I only read one attack. That was from someone who lambasted Catholicism for it’s belief in papal authority. Which was actually a rather worthy criticism though misplaced. Would love to see a response to that one…

[/quote]

Okay! You passed your assignment but lets not turn this into a arguement for or against the CR…I just wanted to give you an idea of what I was speaking about when you asked to qualify an ‘attack’.
Blessings,
Annunciata:)


#34

If you really want to see an attack on something beautiful for God within the Catholic Church go to the “What is Opus Dei?” Thread where a poster decided to print everything off an anti-Opus Dei website spewing a lot of untruths or some real stretches…:rolleyes: Why! Why! can’t we be loving of each other? Gentle, Kind, non-judgemental! What is wrong w/ us when we have to make things look bad before we even know the real truth? When something has been accepted/approved by the Holy Father and is loyal to the Magisterium why should we question it as good practicing Catholics! :twocents: Annunciata:(


#35

[quote=Annunciata]Why do anti-Catholics seek to attack the Catholic Faith?

Why do some Catholics attack the different ways of worshiping within the Faith?
[/quote]

Many anti-Catholics seek to attack the Catholic Faith for one reason only - love.

Many anti-catholics believe that if you’re catholic you can’t be saved and you’re part of an almost Satanic organisation. They also believe that salvation comes only with the “true gospel of grace” that isn’t taught anywhere in the Vatican.

Now, it you believed those things what would you do?

If you didn’t care, you would do nothing and leave catholics to their ultimate condemnation and not worry about a thing.

If you love catholics, you would do something and try to get catholics away from catholicism and into “the truth” where they may be saved. One good way to do that would be to try to show that catholicism was wrong and something else correct.

So many anti-catholics are actually only acting out of love.

Of course, other apologists, whether protestant or catholic, end up not acting out of love - the bitchiness in their posts and writings and speech turns up early and just gets worse. Some of them start out in love and then their sinfulness gets in the way. Others start out without love and have their own reasons.

Unfortunately, even those acting out of love very often don’t take the trouble to find out what catholics actually believe and why they do as that do. So what is meant as a loving witness turns into an ignorant slanging based on what isn’t even true. I know - I’ve done it. I’ve tried to witness for the “truth” and against the “evils” of catholicism based not on what catholicism is but on what I was told it is.

Blessings

Asteroid

(not all forms of attack or protest against catholic doctrine covered above!)

(I’m now on RCIA - before anyone takes me to be an attacker)


#36

I guess ultimately the “why” is because we are ignorant beings incapable of seeing all things clearly, and we are emotional beings.

Think of it this way, the Church does not teach that all wars are evil. And even in the case of a soldier fighting for the “unjust” cause - that soldier is not condemned for doing his duty - unless he is fully aware of the injustice of the cause. So German soldiers and allied soldiers alike are not condemned - not for carrying out their duties.

I might ask, “why do some people get so easily offended when they get insulted by a total stranger who posts something on the internet?”

Buck up. If you can’t stand the heat - stay in the kitchen! This is public life, a public forum.


#37

[quote=asteroid]Many anti-Catholics seek to attack the Catholic Faith for one reason only - love.
[/quote]

:hmmm: I find that rather an interesting statement…I wasn’t always a Catholic and it never occurred to me to attack…I loved them even though we didn’t share the same faith.


#38

Yes, but it doesn’t mean that we don’t have feelings. Many of us here on this forum have become like family and sometimes we feel the need to protect each other from those who jump from forum to forum spewing their venom or giving their opinions no matter who might be hurt. You know we aren’t robots just pressing keys…we are human beings with hearts and souls. So please be kind. Annunciata:(


#39

[quote=Annunciata]:hmmm: I find that rather an interesting statement…I wasn’t always a Catholic and it never occurred to me to attack…I loved them even though we didn’t share the same faith.
[/quote]

If you believe that someone has beliefs or is part of an organisation that will lead them straight to hell, like many anti-catholics believe of catholics, you’re going to try to “rescue” them from their “error”, and “expose” the organisation they are part of.

This will be perceived as attacking catholicism by catholics. By the person doint the “attacking” it will be perceived as an attempt at loving correction and witnessing to the “truth”. (loving the sinner, hating the so called “sin” of catholicism) The person speaking against catholicism doesn’t see it as attacking - rather, calling to the “truth”.

If you believe their beliefs or organisation will lead them to hell and you do nothing, then perhaps you have no love for them. Or the sort of love that will share a meal with them but not share the “truth” with them. Jesus did both with sinners - shared meals and preached. Sometimes he was seen as an attacker too - attacking the pharisees for hypocrisy or telling people to repent. But in all, he acted out of love.

Of course, once you stop being a catholic “attacker” and turn into a catholic “defender” attitudes to all this totally change.

And of course, others attack for completely different reasons than love.

If the above is incoherent I apologise - I got precisely zero hours sleep last night.

Blessings

Asteroid


#40

[quote=Annunciata]Why do anti-Catholics seek to attack the Catholic Faith?

Why do some Catholics attack the different ways of worshiping within the Faith?
[/quote]

Because it’s the Truth. Let’s be honest, the Truth never has much reputation in this world. Mainly perhaps because rarely does the Truth conforms with the world, the “norms”, or the popular trends.

Last time Truth Himself came down to meet us, people attacked Him, even killed Him. So I’m not surprised at the attacks the Church gets; it even confirms my conviction that the Truth subsists in her. :thumbsup:


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