What do LGBT persons means when they say they want full inclusion in the Church?


#1

From an article by Reuters:

'“We’re not looking for a confrontation opportunity,” said Lisbeth Melendez Rivera, head of Latino and Catholic initiatives at Human Rights Campaign, which works for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender, or LGBT, equality. “We’re looking for dialogue that leads to the full inclusion of our people in the Church.”

"Gay Catholics have been energized by comments made by Francis, who famously replied, “Who am I to judge?” when asked about gay men serving in the clergy the first year of his papacy. More recently, the pope encouraged parents to be more accepting of their gay and lesbian children and met privately with a transgender man at the Vatican.

“While openly pushing for a more inclusive church, Francis has nevertheless stuck to Church doctrine, like when he indicated in January that the Church was threatened by same-sex marriage. Change in doctrine, gay activists know, is likely to come slowly, if at all.”

Source: reuters.com/article/2015/09/19/us-pope-usa-gayrights-idUSKCN0RJ0FE20150919

Ed


#2

This is all you need to see to conclude that these people don’t understand what the Catholic Church is, and what God has demanded of Her.

Doctrine cannot change, period. People who desire to be Catholic, but also want the church to change her doctrines, do not actually want to be Catholic. They want to call themselves Catholic, but don’t want to be held to the moral standard God has set for us.

This article also shows a complete lack of journalistic integrity in the way it presents Pope Francis’ statements. The “who am I to judge” comment was made in regards to a specific priest who was living a chaste life in accord with Church teachings. It also indicates that “acceptance” mean’s ignoring the moral implications of disordered desires, which is contrary to what the Pope has publicly stated on the matter.

The article talks about homosexual individuals who were removed from positions in the Church when they made the decision to reject Church teaching, and it paints them like victims. I’m sorry, but what rational person expects to remain employed by an organization who’s principles and ideals they actively reject in their daily lives?

… egh, what do you expect from secular sources…


#3

It doesn’t matter whether or not the Church would change the doctrine. Let’s suppose it does. Let’s suppose that the synod decides that priests can perform same-sex marriages. They’ll be going through empty motions, because the Sacrament is bestowed by God. So even if every cleric, from the newly ordained on up to the Pope, performed gay marriages, the marriages would still amount to no more than a civil marriage.


#4

Just what source exactly should Ed get his news from? Reuters has always been a news agency that is world based, not just North America based. Should I not be watching Papa Francis rough now on this iPad because I’m streaming it from that bastion of liberalism, CNN?


#5

The tremendous graces that our Lord Jesus Christ provides for us through the sacraments received in the right disposition solves everything.

I know of several people with homosexual tendencies that live chaste Christian lives.

No matter what the sin, we all have to stand before our Lord at the time of our death, without rationalizing.


#6

I never said that, I only said that you can’t expect balanced coverage on church issues from them. If you want news about the church, actually go to Catholic sources who understand the Church and can give statements context within Church teaching.

Also, why watch it from CNN when EWTN is streaming coverage as well? That way you get coverage from actual experts instead of self-fashioned “experts.”


#7

For some reason, I do not get the “buffering” popups that I get on both EWTN and ABC. There has been no commentary at all since the ceremonial mass began!!! :thumbsup:


#8

hmm, odd. I haven’t had any buffering issues. Oh well, enjoy the mass!


#9

And they would put themselves in a situation to potentially be in mortal sin.


#10

As with every sin, the sinner, not the Church, puts himself/herself outside the fullness of the Church. Catholics should know what is the doctrine and follow it if they want to remain part of the Body of Christ. If they don’t know, there’s a ton of resources they can use to find out. The most important thing is to know what is and what isn’t the Church so they can make an informed decision.


#11

Just one MAJOR correction. A Catholic Church is NOT hosting them. It is a local LQBT center on, I believe Spruce Street. You can check out the antics at www.fortunatefamilies.com.


#12

Lies, lies and more lies. And “out of context quotes!” And the evil one taking the helm for all this. So sad.


#13

The priest is witness to the sacrament. It is bestowed on a man and woman in Holy Matrimony. Empty motions are scandalous and lead to Catholics squishy in their faith to think this sham is OK and accepted by the Church. Um, wrong.


#14

Thank you, everyone, for your replies. I know to be wary of secular news sources, but, on balance, there appear to be a few that present information that I can compare to Catholic sources. That is, what is the public told by most secular sources, and what does the Church tell us, in its entirety?

Thanks again,

Ed


#15

Noble cause! Thank you!


#16

I didn’t imply to mean that the priests should go through empty motions.


#17

But they would be empty. What sacrament are they bearing witness to? None, nada, nothing. They are signing as witness a marriage certificate that is a meaningless piece of paper.


#18

Here is where the GLBT contention is setting up shop…a far cry from a Catholic Church.

fortunatefamilies.com/news/featured-stories/52-two-ff-evenings-of-reflection-to-be-held-in-philly-during-wmof

And this group was openly rejected by the WMOF committee when they submitted an application to have a booth in the convention center. +1


#19

Exactly.


closed #20

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