what do we do if the extremely pro-choice presidential candidate wins the election?


#1

Hello.

I hope this is the right section for me to put this post.

I keep wondering, what happens, what do we do as Catholics, if the more pro-life presidential candidate doesn’t win – (but I hope and pray he does) – what do people attempting to be faithful Catholics do?

I feel like maybe I’m not relying on God as much as I should be by worrying about this so much.

Any useful comments, insights, comforting thoughts are very welcome.

Please pray for me.


#2

Moving to Moral Theology

Please do not discuss political candidates or political parties on this thread by name.


#3

I know just how you feel. My dh has threatened to move us to another country, but, of course, this isn’t possible and wouldn’t solve anything.

If the pro-death (I have to call it what it is) candidate wins we need to redouble our efforts at getting other Catholics on board. There’s a huge split between pro-life and social justice Catholics in the USA, sad to say. The SJCs believe they have to support the candidate that throws the most money in the direction of welfare programs. They won’t hear that such programs only enslave people and give the government undue power. You can tell which part I take, as much as I hate having to take sides. If only they would see that being pro-life is being socially responsible and just. But, too many of our Chruch leaders tied themselves into supporting candidates and programs support by the pro-death faction, overlooking their stance in order to get short term benefits for programs they liked. But it was all a deception, as many of our Church leaders are finallly realizing–too late, if the pro-death candidates win. More and more of our freedoms will be eaten away and we’ll become a nanny state, beholden to government for everything. That kind of government simply doesn’t work–it leaves no incentive for creativity and productivity, but people want to be taken care of rather than work for anything these days, it seems.


#4

“What do we do if the extremely pro-choice presidential candidate wins the election?”

He already won once. What did we do then?


#5

We do the same thing that we will do if the other candidate wins, and the same thing that we have been doing since Roe v Wade was signed into law. We continue to fight it in the courts. Which is what we will have to do regardless of who wins.


#6

[quote="jpjd, post:4, topic:303887"]
"What do we do if the extremely pro-choice presidential candidate wins the election?"

He already won once. What did we do then?

[/quote]

That's what I was going to say. ;)

We'll just keep doing what we're doing (or start doing more of what we should have been doing): praying, fasting, and using every moral and legal means at our disposal to effect the right kind of change.


#7

Same thing you did for the last four years. And the four before that and the four before that… nothing’s changed about the issue for many many years and presidents regardless of what they said. Nothing will change regardless of who is elected.

Your job as a Catholic is to show forth the face of God and be transformed into the image of Christ. Go feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned and love thy neighbor. You never were supposed to be doing anything else.

Pray. As always.


#8

Pray, sacrifice, trust in God. Support the Church, know your faith and above all LOVE.


#9

Actually, the “four years before this, and the four years before those”, we had the most pro-life President in American history, but were still unable to get Roe v. Wade overturned. Just keeping it real. I’m completely with you on the spirit of your post. We pray, make alms, love and help one another. We ALSO continue our presence in front of the abortion clinics. Pray for our Bishops to do all in their power to help us fight evil, and give us direction.

Yours in Christ,

Steven


#10

Pray for his conversion. And the conversion of all those in the government.

And we should be doing this no matter who wins.

(I am still sad that I lost a bet that Bush would convert :()


#11

I've been feeling sick with worry about this same issue. I'm trying to leave it in God's hands, but I'm unfortunately not very good at doing that and I still feel a lot of anxiety. I guess I need to pray that God will help me be accepting of His will no matter what it is.


#12

I agree ‘we need to continue doing what we are doing’ until human life is protected, the dignity of the family is restored etc. no matter who wins. Wait a minute, is there really much difference between these two candidates. Ain’t they product of the same society? Perhaps we should listen to our holy father’s call for us to deepen our faith in God and work to re-evangelize Europe and America. Is not the wounds on the Body of Christ Jesus, the Church, much more deeper than we recognize?

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#13

Keep on keeping on. It’s not like the other candidate made life issues a central role of his campaign. Of course, that’s for tactical reasons and I do think he’s come around a bit more to our side.

My wife made a good point a few weeks ago when she said she’d gladly take four more years of the same if the abortion issue did not come front and center the way it’s been and one party went from being meekly pro-choice to ferociously so. It’s been terrible for political discourse and even worse for the pro-life movement.

That said, even if we had a pro-life president and even if Roe v. Wade was overturned, abortion would STILL be legal in many states. Our goal should be the end of abortion, not merely its outlawing. That would be a wonderful start, but we have to address the core issues of fear, selfishness and, oh yeah, fear. That’s where abortion is rooted. In the vast majority of cases it is an action made in pure terror. Fear of losing one’s future, fear of judgment, fear of being a terrible parent, fear of being reminded of a rapist.

We need to bring Christ’s love into the pro-life cause more and more. We must love the woman considering abortion just as much as the child who may be victimized. We must let her know that we are there for her and that God is there for her. We must bring the message that Christ repeated the most to these women: Do not be afraid.


#14

I disagree with the idea that “nothing would change” if the pro-death candidate won. While the other candidate isn’t hot and heavy to overturn laws/court rulings, he wouldn’t promote abortion here and around the world the way the other has and will certainly step up if elected. Nor will he support mandates that violate the free exercise of religion in this country. We can only do and expect so much at a time, and minimizing the effects of the pro-death agenda is a big step–one that will save lives now, and help save them in the future.


#15

I heartily agree. My point was more don’t become despondent if the more pro-life candidate loses. Our work will go on no matter what. Our salvation is not dependent on the outcome of temporal elections and we can never sit on any laurels because the work of bringing the light of Christ to the world is never complete until He Himself completes it at the end of the age.


#16

Ah, but we DID get steps in that direction: laws promoted intended to provide the basis for challenging Roe vs. Wade, and, more importantly, 2 Supreme Court Justices who are likely to favor overturning RvW if given the chance.

I just want to make sure people aren’t hiding behind the fantasy that they can ignore the Pro-Life stance of a candidate if that candidate (or his party) fails to “overturn Roe v Wade.”

Nonsense. It’s not that simple. To overturn RvW we have to have 1. Laws and cases that go through the courts with NEW arguments sufficient to reach the Supreme Court with a basis for challenging and overturning RvW. A president or a Congress can’t just “overturn” RvW.

  1. We need SCOTUS justices who will actually come down on the side of overturning RvW.

  2. OR we need a Constitutional Amendment that will define life in such a way as to outlaw abortion. But that’s a fantasy right now. You don’t propose a Constitutional Amendment when you know it will get shot down terribly. You need a 2/3rd or 3/4 majority to pass the amendment, depending on whether you go by legislature or states. You MIGHT, with God’s grace, have a bare majority right now, but nowhere near enough to pass such a thing. So if it were to be proposed, you’d only have a major setback to the Pro-Life movement as it was defeated.

That leaves us with steps 1 and 2–BOTH of which our 43rd president advanced. So don’t buy the nonsense that he didn’t do anything.

Other Pro-Life victories that happened under the last Pro-Life president and were reversed by our Pro-Death president:
A. The Mexico City policy, whereby the US would not provide any funding for abortions internationally. Put in place by Bush 43, reversed by the current administration.
B. Funding only on existing embryonic stem cell lines. This was a hedge for Bush 43, not a full win, but not as bad as what the party currently in power has been trying to do.
C. A favorable environment for the discussion of Pro-Life views, leading to much legislation passed among the many states to chip away at and reduce abortions.

Meanwhile, under our current Pro-Death president, we see 2 more Supreme Court justices who would practically rather die than overturn RvW, and an administration that will stop at nothing to defend, fund, and promote the agenda of Planned Parenthood, including through advancing Obamacare $1 a month premium funding for abortions, school clinics for in-school abortion and sex-education, the HHS mandate, etc.

The point? Pro-Life candidates matter!

Whether RvW is overturned or not is not the only play in the game!

In fact, had we elected a pro-life president, we may well have had the Supreme Court majority we needed to set the stage for overturning RvW!!!

And we’re faced with that choice again in this election–2-3 more justices may be appointed by the next president!

It is for this reason if for no other that it is OUR FAULT as Catholics that abortion is legal and promoted in this country. There are enough Catholics in this country to swing an election if only 10% of us voted Pro-Life instead of against life!

Sorry, had to rant on that. I don’t know if the poster I quoted intended it this way, but I hate to see people trying to justify supporting pro-death candidates and parties just because the pro-life ones haven’t managed to overturn RvW.

As for what we will do? Others have said it: Pray, Fast, Work, Love, Sacrifice. God is the God of Justice. He will receive these little ones to His breast and comfort them. He may even be allowing our dying culture to get so bad that more of us may wake up and listen to Him, knowing that it is easy for us as a society to become complacent if we are not faced with something catastrophically bad enough to catch our attention.

I pray that it doesn’t come to that. But we know that Jesus wins in the end, and he will make all things right for those who follow him faithfully and endure to the end.


#17

I'm a believer in a powerful pendulum that destroys whatever in its way, and I see this pendulum now swinging in a pro-abortion direction. As Catholics, we need to keep on persevering and teaching Catholic doctrine, but don't think that the Row vs Wade verdict will soon change. Just remember what Saint Paul says: In all things, God works for the good. Know that we, as the world, are on the path of salvation!


#18

That is very easy for a finacially secure individual to say and a very conservative individual.
But I am not finacially secure, in fact I am quite poor since I had a dibillitating stroke nearly 8 years ago and am no longer able to work, drive, walk unassisted or even bathe and dress myself without a lot of help.

Given the choice between starvation or death from another stroke. or being a “slave” and survieving I would choose this so called “slavery” any time.

I think some people are selfish and don’t really care about the welfare of others :(.

I way end up dead anyway since texas has chipped away at medicaid til little is left, so the rich will have to pay less taxes and buy new gas guzzlers every year.


#19

J - Jesus

O - Others

Y- Yourself

Let us do what is right, not what would make our own lives more comfortable.

Whatever is the outcome of the election we must stand before God knowing that we did the right thing.

Praise to You Lord Jesus! If I must suffer to save even one life, thank You my Lord.


#20

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:7, topic:303887"]
Same thing you did for the last four years. And the four before that and the four before that.... nothing's changed about the issue for many many years and presidents regardless of what they said. Nothing will change regardless of who is elected.

Your job as a Catholic is to show forth the face of God and be transformed into the image of Christ. Go feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned and love thy neighbor. You never were supposed to be doing anything else.

Pray. As always.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:

I have to say that I'm a little taken aback by the emotional reactions that this election is bringing out in people before it's even over! Especially in people who claim to believe in an omnipotent God!

The only thing we can control is our reactions, the rest is out of our hands. Why don't we give the problems to God and trust Him like He has asked us to do?


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