I didn’t know there were different kinds of Catholics.
I didn’t know there were different kinds of Catholics.
This is a GREAT question!
I cannot wait to hear what those here have to say on this one!
My feelings are that a “Traditional Catholic” is a Catholic who follows the teachings and expectations of Christ and His Church. Nothing more. Nothing less.
There aren’t different “kinds” of Catholics, really. All Catholics believe exactly the same set of beliefs. There are different Rites of the Church, of which the Roman Rite is one.
The Roman Rite has two “forms,” the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form. The Extraordinary Form came about in 1570 and is what many people incorrectly call “The Latin Mass.” It was intended, I suppose you could say, by the mass of 1969, promulgated by Pope Pius VI, after Vatican Council II. This 1969 mass is the Ordinary Form mass. It is usually celebrated in the vernacular (in this case, English).
One of the most common, if not the most common, factors that “traditional” Catholics identify themselves by is by having at least a preference for the Extraordinary Form of the mass, that is, the mass in Latin as it was commonly celebrated before Vatican II.
There are many other things that traditional Catholics identify themselves with. They commonly pray many traditional devotions and observe many traditional practices, such as women veiling their heads during mass, fasting on Fridays throughout the year, among other practices. They commonly have an affinity or at least a liking for Latin.
By no means is this all inclusive, and there are some people who like many of these things who would shun the title of “traditional Catholic” because they don’t want to be labelled.
Yes, there are different kind of Catholics, but it seems I hear always here 2 kinds, like a movie in black and white: the traditional, the liberal.
There are Catholics who are:
*]people who help the poor, the sick, the AIDS sufferers
*]those who have a helping ear
*]those sho pray constantly
*]those who suffer constantly for several reasons and offer that suffering to God.
*]Parish Priests: 1 million
*]pedophile, alcoholic, drug addict, adulterous priests
*]traditional people, who do not like change
*]thinkers, theologians like Benedict XVI
*]Philosophers, deep thought people like John Paul II
*]The Curia People
*]The Swiss Guard
Enough. Someone may add so many things…
thank you, got it.
There are only two kinds of Catholics.
Catholics in a state of grace.
Catholics in a state of mortal sin.
I agree with Thistle on this one. Example; Raymond Cardinal Burke and Nancy Pelosi.
Fixed that for you.
A traditional Catholic is not a person who “prefers” the old Latin Mass. Neither are they people who simply passed Catechism class.
They are people who adhere to a type of spirituality that is largely lost in the 21st Century Catholic Church.
Truthfully, it’s easier to describe their outward signs than their character: the old Latin Mass is the biggest identifier… though there are certainly traditional Catholics who are marooned in Novus Ordoland; there are likewise non-traditional Catholics who go to the TLM.
Trads are people who listen to Catholic Radio… skeptically. They might have a blog. They can list their “top-five” favorite Ecumenical Councils… none of which will rhyme with “Attican Shoe”. Their friends think they’re fuddy-duddys. They’ve got Holy Water fonts in all the bedrooms and by the front door. They quote the Douay Rheims bible. They have an opinion on offering Mass in baroque vestments while in a gothic chapel. They’re tired of tinfoil hat jokes. They may not like Bishop Williamson, but concede that sometimes he’s right, and when he’s right, he’s really right. They can tell you about Assisi. When they’re at a Novus Ordo Mass, they’ve got their hands folded like a Catholic during the Our Father. The women have an extra mantilla in the van-- just in case. The men have an opinion on the best type of pipe tobacco for any occasion. The boys have their own cassock and surplice hanging in the closet. The girls know how to play Dies Irae on the organ. They wear a t-shirt while they go swimming so their brown scapular doesen’t float away. They’re willing to drive an hour to go to Mass… every Sunday. They know the confession times of at least 4 churches. They invite priests over to play cards and smoke cigars. They pray to saints that you think may not really exist. They ask you to finish the sentence when you say “John Paul the Great”… the great what? They might own a live chicken. When they’re at a Novus Ordo Mass, everyone watches them to figure out why they’re hitting themselves during the “Lamb of God”. They’re kneel after Mass to pray… and miss out on the fun gladhanding with Father by the parish gift shop. They scoff when they pass the Masonic Lodge. They cross themselves when they pass a Catholic church. They mutter something about the “poor souls” when they pass a cemetary. They mutter something about St. Michael when an ambulance passes them. Their girls’ first names are Mary. Their boys’ middle names are Mary. Cappa Magna doesn’t sound like a drink at Starbucks to them. They’ll tell you at length why being “charitable” isn’t always being nice and friendly.
It’s complicated. Trads are not easily defined. You just kind of know them when you see them.
:rotfl: That’s so funny. xDD
I would like to offer a disclaimer, I have had family and friends over, and one of their names was Jameson. Pray forgive me, for any apparent mistakes
Maybe unlike others, I feel that a Catholic - any Catholic - should be following the teaching and expectations of the Holy Mother Church, de facto. Outside of which there are only dissident Catholics whom are still indeed Catholic, although, they are not obviously, in submission to Rome. Some traditional Catholics fit into this category.
However, being a traditional Catholic, one stands apart from the normative of the Catholic faithful today, I often attend my local parish and wonder what has been done to the faith I grew up knowing, the Masses I attend there are not far from a Lutheran or a “low church” Anglican Mass - heck, some look a lot like a Pentecostal worship services nowadays. So, I often look around and yearn for the faith that my father and ancestors knew, with the stained glass, confessionals that are used, and not just décor, women in veils or hats, and an actual Crucifix (not a risen Jesus with his shadow on a cross) at the alter , additionally, music that has been traditional to our faith, composed by Catholics for the sake of the propitiatory Sacrifice - not :“This little light of mine”.
Then the subject of why and how this change happened come to mind, most traditionalist are within the consensus that the second Vatican council had been pirated by a few Germanic folks and while nothing was damaged per se, the wording of the council had been tainted with an ambiguity that left cracks open, awaiting a wedge by the hoards of liberal clergy at the time. Suffice to say, the Tridentine Mass was all but suppressed for years and the “new” Mass was promulgated throughout the worlds laity, And with it, a renewed spirituality that focused more on the individual rather then the propitiatory Sacrifice at hand. I remember taking my wife through RCIA while she was converting and being disgusted with the way they described the Mass as a celebratory Sacrifice. It was indeed a rude awaking. There were other grievances I had, such as: only having one class on Mary and the other saints, spending only thirty minutes on purgatory, not mentioning Hell once and flat out refusing to speak of indulgences. I left those classes more confused then anything, and from that, I found a more traditional way, one that I can embrace and bring my family into, without the fear of having to settle for these apparent novelties within the post-councilor Church of today.
Today, I can take my family to Mass and not have to wonder why confession was not offered prior to the Mass or why everyone is holding hands with their arms raised during the our Lords prayer, or why there is no crucifix at the alter, or why my family is the last to leave the pews after our thanksgiving prayers, or why there was no benediction post Mass, ect…ect… tradition is my comfort and my security, it is the faith of my father and the generations before him. This is the faith my family has bravely defended and thence, fought, died and were martyred for. We are Catholics first, and foremost, once that is understood, and only then, can one add an adjective.
Just my two cents, hopefully this isn’t held against me at some point.
Amazing post. You should print it and frame it.
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I don’t understand why people here (or anywhere) who claim charity would judge another’s soul?? Who are WE to declare that anyone else in the state of mortal sin?
While I do not care much at all for her opinions and policies, I cannot declare, especially as a lay person, that someone like Nancy Pelosi is in the state of mortal sin, only that what she expresses is not in line with what the actual Catholic Church teaches.
Please, people, remember CHARITY above all!
The beginnings of the Roman Mass[TLM or Extraordinary Form] are found in the writings of St. Justin (150 A.D.) and St. Hippolytus (215 A.D.) By 250 A.D. the Mass was being said in Latin throughout most of the Roman world, and the Latin Canon as we know it was completed by 399 A.D. While the Mass has remained essentially the same from the days of the Apostles, it was codified in its present form by Pope Pius V in the sixteenth century.
Then do not declare that she is in a state of mortal sin. Nobody has declared that here, you are inferring it by making a correlation between a post with only two names mentioned and your own view of those people. If hypothetically I were to like Mrs. Pelosi views and to consider Msgr. Burke an heretic then probably I would have inferred the opposite association that you mentioned.
There are so many kind of Catholics, each one of us is unique. However, we should also have a unique common background. The Church never asked us to be equal or to have the same opinions, likes or dislikes. Being a Catholic implies a lot of flexibility. Personally I do not like the use of labels that can be ill defined because in my opinion they can create more antagonism than communion.
you would have to ask the people who identify themselves this way
my profile gives my take on it