What do you think about the Orans Posture? Do you like it?

THis is a two part question with a poll. First, do you like the Orans Posture? Second, what do you think about the Orans Posture.

To answer my own question, I absolutely dislike the Orans posture. I do not believe that the laity should use the orans posture…it is not in the Rubrics for laity or the deacon to use such posture. Now it is in the Rubrics for the Priest to use the Orans Posture, because he is praying on behalf of us by taking the place of Christ at The Mass…this is a modernist injection into our Mass that started with the Charismatic Renewal (which I am not blaming, but I feel that if this is where it started, then maybe it should be limited to Charismatic Parishes). During the Mass, the Orans posture by anyone other than the Priest is not in the Rubrics and therefore is a private gesture…and therefore in some cases conflicts with the gestures and signs the rubrics are supposed to protect…which is also a problem because the Mass is not a private ceremony. Even the Pope has stated that The Orans Posture has created confusion within the Mass…

Is there anyway we can eliminate this??? Is it possible some Priest will go in front of their Parishes and explain that the Orans Posture, along with holding hands during the Our Father, is not allowed in The Rubrics and therefore is prohibited. I hope that Priest will start doing this and not allowing this behavior at Mass.

Source for info: ewtn.com/expert/answers/orans_posture.htm

I especially wonder about those individual who appear to be signalling touchdowns during the Mass…

It’s proper for the priest but absolutely inappropriate for the congregation.

I think that it should be addressed in RCIA and PSR/CCD for the most part. The priest commenting on it after mass will probably have little to no affect. But if we can train the next batch right it will die out on it’s own.

LOL…I almost choked…but the sad thing about it is I know exactly what you are talking about…I have seen it before too…especially at the end of the Our Father…when the words “For the Kingdom, the Power, etc…” are said…it looks like they signaling a touchdown.

[quote=Pariah Pirana]I especially wonder about those individual who appear to be signalling touchdowns during the Mass…
[/quote]

[quote=Pariah Pirana]I especially wonder about those individual who appear to be signalling touchdowns during the Mass…
[/quote]

Or just the opposite. Elbows tucked to the waist, hands in front, palms facing up.

Peggy Noonan calls it, "Gettin’ more God on Ya"
One of the posters here called it, The football catch.
(I adopted that one and got really bashed for it, so I am getting on my flame suit now before “someone” shows up)

I like the “football catch” analogy…I have seen that one too…it does look like they are going out for a pass.

[quote=netmilsmom]Or just the opposite. Elbows tucked to the waist, hands in front, palms facing up.

Peggy Noonan calls it, "Gettin’ more God on Ya"
One of the posters here called it, The football catch.
(I adopted that one and got really bashed for it, so I am getting on my flame suit now before “someone” shows up)
[/quote]

I like the Orans posture – on the priest!

I don’t like it in the congregation. I don’t know; it just feels to me like something only the priest should be using. What was ever wrong with folding your hands in prayer? :confused:

Heh, my 400th post!

[quote=dumspirospero]I like the “football catch” analogy…I have seen that one too…it does look like they are going out for a pass.
[/quote]

This weekend there were four babies being baptized at our parish. This means lots of visitors.
In front of us was a man and his teenage son. At the Our Father, the man did the Football Catch. My five-year-old had never seen this before so she decided to try it.
I said to her, "Don’t do that. Fold your hands like a good girl!"
The man’s son suppressed a laugh and he put his hands down immediately.

Any wonder how innovations start?

NOthing was, or is, wrong with the “folded hands”. . .but the whole em-PHASIS of a huge proportion of “liturgy” of the 70s-90s was the “priesthood” of the laity. So we got “copycat” Orans, the whole congregation singing the Doxology “Through him, with him, in him. . .”, all the “kiddies” invited to “stand up on the altar” for the consecration, invited to join in the Eucharist prayer etc. We were ALL priests, right? The Mass was OUR Mass, right?

:clapping::dancing::tiphat:

Congrats!!!

Kind of limited choices on the poll. What doI think about it? Kind of indifferent. Depends on how I feel. Sometimes I do it and sometimes I don’t. I have noticed the majority of people in our parish using it. Evidently it is popular among them. The pastor has never been known to either encourage or discourage it. Holding hands has kind of died out, so maybe this is a replacement for those who feel the need for more active participation. Wouldn’t be the first time the laity actually brings about a change in the Church. Ya gotta just love those sheep of the flock.

I think many people adopt the orans position just so they don’t feel left out. I have seen more than a few people look around before they assumed the position.

I have also seen the touchdown signallers tone-down their antics during requiem Masses where they didn’t want to look odd amongst visitors…

[quote=Pariah Pirana]I think many people adopt the orans position just so they don’t feel left out. I have seen more than a few people look around before they assumed the position.

I have also seen the touchdown signallers tone-down their antics during requiem Masses where they didn’t want to look odd amongst visitors…
[/quote]

Do you have the people who “scoop”?
I don’t even remember the point of the Holy Mass they do it. I think it’s when we respond, "…We lift them up to the Lord."
I’m not really sure because we have the EWTN type Holy Mass. No one does any of those innovations.

If they do, they are visitors and stop when they see that they are the only one’s doing it.

I have seen the scoop as well…I have seen probably every variation that has resulted from people doing the Orans Posture…all of them equally offensive.

[quote=netmilsmom]Do you have the people who “scoop”?
I don’t even remember the point of the Holy Mass they do it. I think it’s when we respond, "…We lift them up to the Lord."
I’m not really sure because we have the EWTN type Holy Mass. No one does any of those innovations.

If they do, they are visitors and stop when they see that they are the only one’s doing it.
[/quote]

If others want to do it, it’s fine with me. If I laugh out loud at how silly I think they look, I hope they don’t take it personally. It’s just that, I think it looks sort of, humorous :smiley: They look kind of like yogis, and next thing I expect is that they’ll all start chanting ‘om’ or something…

I don’t feel personally comfortable with this type of gesture. :slight_smile:

…strikes me as a little hokey, but hey, different strokes for different ghost…

…they can remember to do the Orans Posture, but they can hardly remember when to sit, stand, or kneel…

… uh oh, loosing the chairatable slant… time to call it a day…

… for those of you that like the Orans Posture, knock yourself out… vivala differance’

Peace:thumbsup:

Not in my diocese. I’d never seen this until this document was released, although it did reduce hand holding:

dioceseofcleveland.org/liturgy/english/general_instruction_part4.htm

What posture and gesture might be appropriate during the praying of the Lord’s Prayer?

 ****The *GIRM* gives us no suggestion for, nor does it forbid, any particular gesture for the Lord’s Prayer at Mass. Perhaps it presupposes that we will all fold or join our hands together at our heart, a gesture from the Middle Ages that suggests being humble and at peace; focused and ready to do God’s will. Certainly, such a gesture by the whole liturgical assembly would be appropriate.

  There is another gesture, even more ancient, namely, *orans.*  *Orans*is Latin for “praying.” The custom of Christians praying with arms raised and palms open to the heavens dates to the earliest days of the Church. Tertullian, a Christian theologian, a North African layman and Father of the Church of the early third century, indicating how he believed Jesus prayed in life and in death, wrote: “Not only do we [Christians] raise our hands, but also hold them outstretched, so that by imitating the Lord in his passion, we bear witness to him as we pray.” Over the course of centuries, the ***orans*** began to be perceived as exclusively the prayer posture of the ordained. With the Second Vatican Council’s emphasis on the Mass being the prayer of the whole Body of Christ, united with the Risen Lord, it certainly might make sense theologically and liturgically for all the people to return to praying the Lord’s Prayer in this ancient and noble posture.

  In addition, praying with our arms and hands extended makes clear what we mean in praying the Lord’s Prayer.  *Orans*is a gesture of praise, declaring our sense of God’s holiness (“hallowed be thy name”). It is also an acknowledgement of God’s victory in Christ’s Death and Resurrection. By extending our arms we may also be praying for the fullness of that victory to be revealed (“thy kingdom come”). *Orans*is also a liturgical gesture of surrender as we entrust our needs to God’s faithful love (“thy will be done,” “give us this day,” “forgive us,” “deliver us”). Perhaps most important, *orans* indicates our actively seeking God’s Presence in our lives. By this Prayer, we reach out to touch God, “to stroke God’s face.” Such is one meaning present in the Jewish word for prayer, *palal.*  Because praying in *orans* externally shows what we are praying internally, the Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy recommends *orans* over the current practice of holding hands. 

  The one gesture that is probably not appropriate is “holding hands.” It should be noted that when any group of believers gathers for prayer and all join hands, assuming this posture during the Lord’s Prayer is fine. However, when the Lord’s Prayer is prayed *at Mass,* such an action may not be as appropriate. Given that *the*source of our unity is the Body and Blood of the Lord; given that we express our forgiving love of one another in the Sign of Peace, the gesture of holding hands may be redundant. As good and appropriate as this gesture may be *outside* *Mass* for stressing our unity and hospitality, such a gesture *during Mass*does not seem to express the totality of the Lord’s Prayer in preparation for Holy Communion, the Prayer *directed to God* in surrender and petition of our daily bread.

  As we discern and decide upon some uniformity in our parish’s gesture during this Prayer, we must remember to be patient with one another and to be charitable. We must also be cautious about wedding ourselves to any particular gesture since no official one has yet been determined. Finally, causing any hurt or disturbing one another’s prayer can only be *inappropriate*in preparation for Communion with Christ and one another.

cont

also this:

dioceseofcleveland.org/news/anexplanationoftheGIRM.htm

  •       Recitation of the “Our Father”:*
    
          
    
                                            During the “Our Father” (Lord’s Prayer) people **may** raise their hands. This is not, as some suggest, an attempt to mimic those from the Evangelical or Pentecostal Churches. It is an attempt to recover an ancient gesture of the Church seen in the catacombs, but most importantly, it is an imitation of how Christ prayed in life and in death, says Tertullian, a Father of the Church. People may also continue to fold their hands at their hearts. Neither of these gestures is mandated by GIRM. They are pastoral suggestion from Tradition.
    

I’ve noticed that different people have different ‘styles’ when doing this orans gesture. Some hold their forearms at a 90 degree angle, with their hands limply open, and kind of close to their bodies. They look especially lame, especially if they have a less than noble physique.

Others spread their arms out wider and exhibit a bit more muscle tone and vigor in their stance. They look slightly less lame, in my mind.

Some people really spread their arms out far up and out, and you hope that 1) they used a good deoderant and 2) they don’t hit anyone in the face who is near them :smiley:

The orans posture was quite common in the ancient Church. Why should it not be so today. “Lift up holy hands” was not simply an encouragement to priests but to all Chrisitans. It is still quite appropriate in the East. Some of us do it at our Church.

Dan L

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