What do YOU think about Us Catholics and our veneration of Mary


#83

Great question!

I think a few things:

  1. I think Catholics want to serve God faithfully and faithfully follow what the Catholic church says will bring them closer to God.

  2. I think the Catholic church began without veneration of Mary, then around AD 600 was added to church beliefs and has continued its intensity through the years.

  3. I KNOW there are very few verses of the bible that mention Mary. But all of them mention her as a humble and chosen women to be a vessel for Jesus, which is an blessed honor. However, no bible scripture portrays her as anything that the Catholic church claims. That is, that we should pray to her and “venerate” her.

I have two questions for you. 1) After searching all the verses in the New Testament that reference Mary (there’s not many so it won’t take long to read through all of them), what conclusion do you come to about how we should treat her?

  1. As a follow-up to question #1: Although there are few verses referencing Mary, there are countless referencing Abraham, David, and Moses, just to name a few. I’m very surprised that Catholics primarily venerate Mary and not these men of the Old Testament who were truly men of God per the scriptures (although still sinners). I honestly don’t know the answer, could you help me understand this? As a protestant, I choose to worship (and venerate) only the Lord Christ Jesus, as he is “a jealous God” and all glory should go to him.

Peace be with you!


#84

"She never tells us to worship her but to do whatever her Son says."
She told some people this at a wedding. She is not the authority of scripture, Jesus is. At any point in time if Jesus had said something that rebuked her words, you’d have to go with Jesus. Not saying this happened, but my point is that Jesus’ words and the inspired words of the prophets and apostles is all that we can rely on. I have no big issue with what you said, but I wanted to point that out.

Protestants only see the number of “Hail Marys” in the Rosary. Catholics know that the Mysteries focus more on Jesus than on His mother.
–No scripture tells us to focus on her at all. However, every book of the bible in some fashion tells us to give all the glory to God. NONE say give any glory to anyone else. Honor your father and mother is an entirely different concept, and that’s an obvious difference. You honor the President of the united states, due to his office. You honor your father and mother. You honor those in other high standings. BUT you do not worship them or glorify or pray to them. Only god, per the scriptures.

Imagine this scene in heaven…
Jesus…welcome my son/daughter…would you like to meet my dear Mother…and your dear Mother also
Protestant…huh!!..what do I want to meet her for…she meant nothing to me on earth…why should she now.
Jesus…uh oh…maybe you need to rethink that

This scene will sound appealing to the Catholic believer, but unfortunately does not have any ties to scripture. It’s a fantasy of men, not from scripture.


#85

Some good, some bad.

I wonder what you think of protestant veneration of Mary (just as critical i suppose)


#86

Well, that verse was contextually intended for John. However, she is our mother, even sister as Augustine points out, for Christ said,

“For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


#87

Revelation 12 and Psalm 2. She is the mother of all who hold the doctrines of Christ.


#88

I don’t understand. I had no intention of being sarcastic? What did I write that you took that way?


#90

hmmm, Mary was chosen by our GOD out literally BILLIONS of other choices; can we make this hilighted statement?

I completely AGREE with the rest of your post;

Continued Blessings

Patrick [The OP]


#91

Paul only spoke to some people in Corinth or Galatia or Ephesus, etc. does that mean we should disregard what he said as well?

All scripture, no matter who spoke it, is inspired by the Holy Spirit? Are you claiming there is nothing of importance in these words that she spoke?


#92

Thank you for sharing your honest opinion. With all Christian charity I can read the 10 commandments, I know I am to worship God alone. I don’t worship Mary, and Mary doesn’t want my worship anyway. I understand it can look similar though but please be kind and don’t imply we’re lying. God bless and thank you for letting me share my thoughts.


#93

When I was a Protestant (Reformed), I thought that Marian Devotion was a hateful and demonic idolatry.

Now that I’m converting to the Holy Mother Church and looking foward to become a Catechumen, my love and admiration for the Most Blessed Virgin grows stronger every day


#94

Sounds familiar, like the Jews during our Lord’s visitation also only need their rabbis/lawyers and the Sanhedrin, their magisterium, forming “tradition”.

The church was first Jewish, and to say they had no writ doesn’t fit, as NT writ testifies.

except He very often pointed out how He was fulfilling Writ. he did not say he was fulfilling tradition , or magisterial wishes.

And He most definitely shortly after His departure command inspired writings.

not sure, that therewas a “eucharist” at Last Supper, at least not as we with certainty give thanks later. Were the apostles thanking God for Calvary at the Last Supper ? Was is more declaratory than a thanksgiving?

For sure the elements were there, and consecratory words (with any ''changes" one would believe or not), but was there thanksgiving , for which Christians would later become famous for, for which the entire rite would be known by and finally labeled "Thanksgiving " ? Eucharist =Thanksgiving in Greek


#95

Then why did Barnabas write,

" Those that are knowledgeable of the Lord’s precepts, keep them, as many as are written " ?


#96

Well Victorinus, one of the first fathers to write commentary on Apocalypse in 3/4 th century wrote this:

"The woman clothed with the sun, and having the moon under her feet, and wearing a crown of twelve stars upon her head, and travailing in her pains, is the ancient Church of fathers, and prophets, and saints, and apostles, which had the groans and torments of its longing until it saw that Christ… had taken flesh out of the selfsame people. …"

Did Mary at Bethlehem give birth in travailing pains ?

Many say she, the “woman” , is “Israel” , especially in the last days.

I do not mind seeing it as partly playing on Mary’s history and the birth of Christ , but with future application as context ( the woman fleeing into the wilderness for three and a half years , a time familiar at end times). Prophecies often have several layers of fulfilment, or a shadowing of a future event.


#97

Stay on point! Where did JESUS teach that we run to the bible and argue?

Where did JESUS teach that anything written was the “final authority”?

Where did JESUS teach that anything written was the “sole rule”?

Answer those and we can talk. Of course, He did none of these.

Jesus did NOT NOT NOT found a bible Church.

You are at least two degrees of separation away from the Church that Christ founded.

  1. You rely on your ego’s interpretation of the bible
  2. You have departed even from the reformers.

How do you KNOW that you are even Christian?


#98

Epic fail. As many as are written? This does in no way say that everything must be written! Leviticus was written. The Decalogue was written. We do not follow the 613 written laws.

“Bible-based” is 100% unarguably a man-made idea.

You cannot argue that and retain any credibility,


#99

What? The Church gave birth to Christ?

Epic fail.


#100

[quote=“mcq72, post:94, topic:467421, full:true”] not sure, that therewas a “eucharist” at Last Supper, at least not as we with certainty give thanks later. Were the apostles thanking God for Calvary at the Last Supper ? Was is more declaratory than a thanksgiving?

For sure the elements were there, and consecratory words (with any ''changes" one would believe or not), but was there thanksgiving , for which Christians would later become famous for, for which the entire rite would be known by and finally labeled "Thanksgiving " ? Eucharist =Thanksgiving in Greek
[/quote]

If you are inventing your own religion, and using a dictionary to define words, this makes sense.

Where did Jesus say to do that?

Consider: You claim that 5 Billion Christians over 2,000 years were ALL WRONG but you and your bible are right?

I may very well be retarded, but that sounds arrogant.


#101

Serious thread drift.

Why Catholic, Orthodox and the reformers venerate Mary is 100% clear and the right thing to do.

What would Jesus do? - to use a hackneyed phrase. What did He do?

I seriously wonder what in hell has crept into bible Christianity to make her common, or simply forget about her?

Have a read about demonic limitations during exorcisms:

http://www.signandsight.com/features/530.html

From the interview:

(Fr. Barrajon) At the end, the priest says to the demon, “Go away! Disappear!” The
demon usually answers, “No, I don’t want to.” It rebels and revolts.
Sometimes it says "You have no power over me. You are nothing to me."
But after a while, its resistance weakens. This usually happens after
the invocation of the Holy Mother, she’s very important for that. No demon ever dares to insult her during an exorcism. Never.

(Paul Badde) Does he have more respect for Mary than for God himself?

(Fr. Barrajon) Apparently.
Otherwise no holds are barred, and everyone is insulted: the priests,
everyone present, the bishops, the Pope, even Jesus Christ. But never
the Virgin Mary
. It’s an enigma.

Even the devil venerates her by leaving her untouched by his filthy hands.


#102

Maryam is the greatest of all women, so venerating her is totally understandable. I was sort of surprised at the level that Catholicism takes it to, but obviously you guys see her as the mother of God, so that’s understandable too.


#105

Agree, that is the “woman” is not Mary but the church or “Israel”,as many commentators state, and that in the last days…of tribulation, even great tribulation.

Certainly Mary and the birth of Jesus is a type or a foreshadow of the end time event ( the birth, Herod trying to kill Him, the fleeing into Egypt), much like they thought John the Baptist was Elijah, yet was not the fulfillment of another end time prophecy.

Again, early church father Victorinus commentary on Apocalypse agrees with your well written post.


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