What does this mean: evangelical catholic (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod)?


#1

I am not familiar enough with the Lutheran Church to know what the Missouri Synod is or what an evangelical Catholic is (aren't all Catholics evangelical, though we may not be "Evangelicals"?)?

Anyone know?

Thanks!


#2

[quote="liquidayno, post:1, topic:310252"]
I am not familiar enough with the Lutheran Church to know what the Missouri Synod is or what an evangelical Catholic is (aren't all Catholics evangelical, though we may not be "Evangelicals"?)?

Anyone know?

Thanks!

[/quote]

Talking about me? :D

The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is the second largest Lutheran synod in the United States.

Evangelical Catholic is probably a more correct term than Lutheran for what those of us who confess the Augsburg Confession really are or should be. We do not deny, but rather honor our catholicity, and consider ourselves a continuation of the western Church.
One could say in short hand that we are the Lutheran equivalent to High-Church Anglican.

Jon


#3

Talking about me?

Not trying to single you out, but thanks for responding Jon!

By evangelical, do you mean Evangelical or evangelical?

By catholic, do you mean Roman Catholic, or universal?


#4

=liquidayno;10203514]Not trying to single you out, but thanks for responding Jon!

Well, you did since I think I'm the only member with that configuration in my profile. :p But no worries, I'm not offended.

By evangelical, do you mean Evangelical or evangelical?

Evangelical, as in the Reformation era meaning - of and pertaining to the Gospel. But not modern American usage by those communions who have had their rise in the last century or two.

By catholic, do you mean Roman Catholic, or universal?

Catholic, but not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. The Lutheran Reformers often spoke of the Church Catholic, which is more than describing simply the "invisible Church".

My reason for using the term comes out of a discussion sometime back about people using vague terms for their profile instead of being specific about their communion, mainly amongst some protestants. I was just being even more specific. ;)

Jon


#5

To me it means Mighty Fine People. When I lived in St.Louis I had the privilege of working for 1-2 years with a woman whose husband was going through Concordia seminary . She was awesome. I barely knew her husband, so I can’t say. I’ve known a few other LCMS people and they are definitely the cream of the crop. Their campus is beautiful as well. I used to listen to their radio station and there were some really good speakers and music on it. It was staffed by seminary students from outside St.Louis who stumbled over the fact that although many things in St.Louis have French names, the pronounciation is anything but French.


#6

[quote="Truthstalker, post:5, topic:310252"]
To me it means Mighty Fine People. When I lived in St.Louis I had the privilege of working for 1-2 years with a woman whose husband was going through Concordia seminary . She was awesome. I barely knew her husband, so I can't say. I've known a few other LCMS people and they are definitely the cream of the crop. Their campus is beautiful as well. I used to listen to their radio station and there were some really good speakers and music on it. It was staffed by seminary students from outside St.Louis who stumbled over the fact that although many things in St.Louis have French names, the pronounciation is anything but French.

[/quote]

You are very kind, Trudi.

Thanks,
Jon


#7

I was just being even more specific.

Specific enough to confuse me. ;)

Thanks for helping me understand Jon!


#8

[quote="liquidayno, post:7, topic:310252"]
Specific enough to confuse me. ;)

Thanks for helping me understand Jon!

[/quote]

Sorry I confused :o, glad I could help. :)

PM me should I confuse you again. I'm a teacher, so I get the "you confused me" all the time. :D Guess I'm pretty good at it.

Jon


#9

There are even parishes of the LCMS that are Catholic in form of worship. They call divine service Mass, call their pastors Father, have crucifixes in the chapel instead of an empty cross. Church of the Ausburg Confession in Overland Park, Kansas is one such LCMS Church. It is also my understanding that Lutheran churches in other countries are also more Catholic in their worship as well.


#10

Sounds a bit like my Anglo- Catholic brothers in the Church of England. Our old priest always called himself an evangelical catholic too.


#11

[quote="JonNC, post:4, topic:310252"]
Well, you did since I think I'm the only member with that configuration in my profile. :p But no worries, I'm not offended.

Evangelical, as in the Reformation era meaning - of and pertaining to the Gospel. But not modern American usage by those communions who have had their rise in the last century or two.

Catholic, but not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. The Lutheran Reformers often spoke of the Church Catholic, which is more than describing simply the "invisible Church".

My reason for using the term comes out of a discussion sometime back about people using vague terms for their profile instead of being specific about their communion, mainly amongst some protestants. I was just being even more specific. ;)

Jon

[/quote]

In many ways, Jon and I look alike.

OTOH, I'm not specific at all. I usually let folks figure it out.

GKC

*Anglicanus-Catholicus
*


#12

I’m learning from Jon that original meaning of ‘evangelical’ really is a good thing. I have to admit that I find the word hard to say without wondering if the the person I’m talking to understands the meaning.


#13

[quote="benjohnson, post:12, topic:310252"]
I'm learning from Jon that original meaning of 'evangelical' really is a good thing. I have to admit that I find the word hard to say without wondering if the the person I'm talking to understands the meaning.

[/quote]

I would call myself an evangelical but there's an innate bias against the term now due to its associations.


#14

Jon, why is it that LCMS do not have bishops while other Lutheran churches do like ELCA?
Is LCMS more German in heritage while ELCA is more Scandanavian?

I beleive that Sweden and Norway always kept their bishops and commonly call their service a mass, and their pastors priests.


#15

=andrewstx;10206619]Jon, why is it that LCMS do not have bishops while other Lutheran churches do like ELCA?

I really don't know, though our synodical and district "presidents" do perform bishop type functions, as well as others. It may have to do with Walther's approach to polity.

Is LCMS more German in heritage while ELCA is more Scandanavian?

Maybe uniformly so, but that's probably in large leasure due to the fact that the ELCA is the result of a merger of prior bodies - most notably the Lutheran Church in America (LCA), and the American Lutheran Church (ALC). These two trace back to different roots.

I beleive that Sweden and Norway always kept their bishops and commonly call their service a mass, and their pastors priests.

Yes, and they were able to keep their apostolic succession (yes, I know Rome would probably dispute that) since bishops went with the changes following the Reformation.

Jon


#16

[quote="GKC, post:11, topic:310252"]
In many ways, Jon and I look alike.

OTOH, I'm not specific at all. I usually let folks figure it out.

GKC

*Anglicanus-Catholicus
*

[/quote]

I consider this a supreme compliment.

Jon


#17

[quote="Indifferently, post:13, topic:310252"]
I would call myself an evangelical but there's an innate bias against the term now due to its associations.

[/quote]

Indeed.

Jon


#18

Reciprocal.

GKC


#19

I see that I am late in joining this party. Former Lutheran pastor and current Catholic Priest, Rev. Leonard Klein, sees four ways in contemporary Lutheranism of understanding how Lutheranism relates to Christianity broadly understood.

1) Protestant - just another Protestant church (Example: LCMC)

2) Waltherian - Lutheranism is the true visible Church on earth, the proper continuation of Western Christianity. (Some parts of WELS and LCMS)

3) Neo - Agreement on the centrality of "Justification by Faith" is the only thing necessary to be Christian. This is seen in much of Mainline Lutheranism (ELCA especially and can be found in most of American Lutheranism)

4) Evangelical Catholic - Lutheranism is an attempt at reforming the Catholic Church, albeit one that has not done terribly well historically speaking (parts of the LCMS and ELCA).

Read the whole article here:

ctsfw.net/media/pdfs/kleintwilight.pdf


#20

[quote="ndismyhome, post:19, topic:310252"]

Read the whole article here:

ctsfw.net/media/pdfs/kleintwilight.pdf

[/quote]

That's a fine read:

Some quotes that struck me:

"(Lutheran confessionalism is very vulnerable to this error. If the paperwork agrees, we see
grounds for unity. If it does not, we cannot imagine the next step.)"

"And unless the saints in glory are confined in a localized Calvinist heaven somewhere, is it not at least imaginable that they are in full prayer fellowship with us and that we might ask their intercessions as freely as we ask for one another's?"

At some point in my life, I hope to use the phrase "localized Calvinist heaven."

We Lutherans have lost too many good folk like Fr. Klein because we can't seem to act on the reforms we need to do to bring us back to clear orthodoxy, proper liturgy, strong morals, and catholic outlook. :mad:


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