What does this sound like?


#1

I have in my hand a book coming from an independent source (written by an Orthodox priest) regarding the history of the Orthodox Divine Liturgy. He traces back the history to 150AD, the Liturgy at the time of St. Justin Martyr. The description of the liturgy back then is as follows:

  • Bishop greets the faithful, “Peace be to all.” And they respond, “And to your spirit!”
  • Three readings, one OT reading followed by Psalms with “refrain”, an Epistle reading followed by a Psalm with an “Alleluia” refrain, and then the Gospel
  • Homily/Sermon
  • Litany and intercessory prayers of the faithful
  • Kiss of Peace
  • Gifts placed on the altar
  • Anaphora (said aloud)
  • Breaking of bread, Communion
  • Dismissal

Sounds familiar? :wink:


#2

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:1, topic:294210"]
Sounds familiar? ;)

[/quote]

how many guesses do we get?:popcorn:


#3

[quote="april32010, post:2, topic:294210"]
how many guesses do we get?:popcorn:

[/quote]

Does a faithful Roman Catholic need more than one guess? ;)


#4

If only the kiss of peace were in that place now! :p

If I could change one thing about Mass, that would be it!!

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:1, topic:294210"]
I have in my hand a book coming from an independent source (written by an Orthodox priest) regarding the history of the Orthodox Divine Liturgy. He traces back the history to 150AD, the Liturgy at the time of St. Justin Martyr. The description of the liturgy back then is as follows:

  • Bishop greets the faithful, "Peace be to all." And they respond, "And to your spirit!"
  • Three readings, one OT reading followed by Psalms with "refrain", an Epistle reading followed by a Psalm with an "Alleluia" refrain, and then the Gospel
  • Homily/Sermon
  • Litany and intercessory prayers of the faithful
  • Kiss of Peace
  • Gifts placed on the altar
  • Anaphora (said aloud)
  • Breaking of bread, Communion
  • Dismissal

Sounds familiar? ;)

[/quote]


#5

[quote="Oneofthewomen, post:4, topic:294210"]
If only the kiss of peace were in that place now! :p

If I could change one thing about Mass, that would be it!!

[/quote]

But as you can see, the entire OF is traditional. Predates Trent by 1400 years ;)


#6

Are you just discovering this?


#7

Mass for Children.


#8

[quote="YoungCatholic21, post:7, topic:294210"]
Mass for Children.

[/quote]

:) Without the microphones.


#9

If anyone is interested, here is St Justin Martyr's text on the Eucharistic celebration:

*From the First Apology of Justin. *

No one may share the Eucharist with us unless he believes that what we teach is true, unless he is washed in the regenerating waters of baptism for the remission of his sins, and unless he lives in accordance with the principles given us by Christ.

We do not consume the eucharistic bread and wine as if it were ordinary food and drink, for we have been taught that as Jesus Christ our Savior became a man of flesh and blood by the power of the Word of God, so also the food that our flesh and blood assimilates for its nourishment becomes the flesh and blood of the incarnate Jesus by the power of his own words contained in the prayer of thanksgiving.

The apostles, in their recollections, which are called gospels, handed down to us what Jesus commanded them to do. They tell us that he took bread, gave thanks and said: Do this in memory of me. This is my body. In the same way he took the cup, he gave thanks and said: This is my blood. The Lord gave this command to them alone. Ever since then we have constantly reminded one another of these things. The rich among us help the poor and we are always united. For all that we receive we praise the Creator of the universe through his Son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit.

On Sunday we have a common assembly of all our members, whether they live in the city or the outlying districts. The recollections of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as there is time. When the reader has finished, the president of the assembly speaks to us; he urges everyone to imitate the examples of virtue we have heard in the readings. Then we all stand up together and pray.

On the conclusion of our prayer, bread and wine and water are brought forward. The president offers prayers and gives thanks to the best of his ability, and the people give assent by saying, “Amen”. The eucharist is distributed, everyone present communicates, and the deacons take it to those who are absent.

The wealthy, if they wish, may make a contribution, and they themselves decide the amount. The collection is placed in the custody of the president, who uses it to help the orphans and widows and all who for any reason are in distress, whether because they are sick, in prison, or away from home. In a word, he takes care of all who are in need.

We hold our common assembly on Sunday because it is the first day of the week, the day on which God put darkness and chaos to flight and created the world, and because on that same day our savior Jesus Christ rose from the dead. For he was crucified on Friday and on Sunday he appeared to his apostles and disciples and taught them the things that we have passed on for your consideration.

What a nice blast from the past! And also a beautiful example of how the members of the early church generally cared for each other's welfare.


#10

[quote="ProVobis, post:8, topic:294210"]
:) Without the microphones.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#11

I wanted to reply to your previous post.

ecclesiadei.nl/docs/timeline.html


#12

[quote="ProVobis, post:11, topic:294210"]
I wanted to reply to your previous post.

ecclesiadei.nl/docs/timeline.html

[/quote]

Pro, I have been looking for this chart for a long time. I couldn't remember where it was located. Thank you!


#13

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:3, topic:294210"]
Does a faithful Roman Catholic need more than one guess? ;)

[/quote]

It sure doesn't sound like a Protestant evangelical service!:rolleyes:


#14

It sounds like Mass.


#15

I know! Iknow! ;)


#16

Yep, that's Mass!

The ancient existence of the Catholic Church is what initially began to pull me in. The first time that I read Justin Martyr's description of worship and the Eucharist, I was blown away. Once I realized that it actually was the original Church, then I knew that there was no place else for me. I had to convert!


#17

This may be a question for another thread, but since you posted this Constantine,
it reminded me of a question I have had for a long time.

It is my understanding, from my liturgy classes, that what you have posted here is pretty much how things were for the first few hundred years or so. Then different elements were added to address different needs and by the time the Council of Trent was called there were so many forms of Mass, depending on where you lived, and Trent "codified" one Roman Rite, which witth a few minor changes through the years since has pretty much stayed the same.

That said, why did Trent do away with the OT reading?
Or the bigger question, why did the CoT codify a Mass that was so different from what was once done?

I can only imagine what the internet boards would have been like if they were around back then! :eek:


#18

[quote="Oneofthewomen, post:17, topic:294210"]

That said, why did Trent do away with the OT reading?

[/quote]

You have to be kidding.

Prayers at the Foot of the Altar - Psalm 42
Incensing prayers before Lavabo - Psalm 140
Lavabo - Psalm 26
Asperges - Psalm 50
Introit - generally a Psalm
Gradual -

Offertory -

Communion -


#19

Those are Psalms, PV, and I know that they are still there, I am talking about readings from the OT.

[quote="ProVobis, post:18, topic:294210"]
You have to be kidding.

Prayers at the Foot of the Altar - Psalm 42
Incensing prayers before Lavabo - Psalm 140
Lavabo - Psalm 26
Asperges - Psalm 50
Introit - generally a Psalm
Gradual -

Offertory -

Communion -

[/quote]


#20

[quote="ProVobis, post:18, topic:294210"]
You have to be kidding.

Prayers at the Foot of the Altar - Psalm 42
Incensing prayers before Lavabo - Psalm 140
Lavabo - Psalm 26
Asperges - Psalm 50
Introit - generally a Psalm
Gradual -
Offertory -
Communion -

[/quote]

I think that meant non-Psalm OT. As to the reason, I do not know, but I do know that some liturgical changes are done for educational purposes. Perhaps a greater emphasis was deemed needed on the epistles.

Great link, btw.


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