What every Catholic should know?

has anybody been to this site?

I was looking at some of the stuff it claimed and couldn't see how anyone with a knowledge of scripture could believe any of it...

They blatantly quote scripture out of context.

Now...
discuss.
lol

I wouldn't sweat it, GrahamaPhone.

The internet has allowed the proliferation of anti-Catholic sites, many masquerading as 'outreach to Catholics.' The link you give brings us to a site which seems a tad more 'gussied up' than most, but it's really no more than a garden variety 'all answers are in the Bible and Catholics have it all wrong' site.

  1. Among this site & others like it, I find it amusing - and indicative of the (low) level these folks operate at - that you basically can't figure out who or what the site maintainers really are or how to find them. Are they a church? They don't state. They make a big deal out of claiming tax exempt status, but that means absolutely nothing. They don't appear to have a phone number. Their address is a PO Box. They claim their...director, founder, whatever (he isn't specified) is a former priest -- which is impossible to verify and even if accurate, so what? Under 'who we are,' they link to something called the Berean Beacon -- once again, whatever that is (the Beacon site tells nothing about who they are or what they do).

  2. Do they quote out of context? Sure they do. Do they care? Probably not. Can their 'theology' stand up to intellectual heavyweights like Aquinas, Augustine, Albertus Magnus, etc.? I don't think so, for the same reason you know as well as I do: They have no theology beyond their own interpretation of the Bible....and which version? Have they based their 'interpretation' on the original Greek texts? Or the KJ version? We can't tell. We can tell that their web pages contain various misspellings, poor grammar, etc., which is sugestive of a lack of intelectual scrutiny. If their theology could stand up to intellectual heavyweights, the heavyweights would be on their side, not ours!

Altough this site is annoying, there are IMHO bigger fish in the sea to worry about.

-VdT

I hope no one believes what they say!!

just another attempt to deceive some poor folks.

I sent them the following email
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:44 PM
Subject: What you need to know

Dear sirs,

I have reviewed your website with great interest and am sad to say you are misinformed about many things about the Catholic Church. I was disappointed that although your site appears to be professionally designed, it is littered with errors, half truths, and simply stuff that has been made up. Let me address one subject that you really need to read the Church's Book on, by the Church's book I mean the Bible. Remember the Church came first and then came the Bible.

The Eucharist:
It is not the Catholic Church's idea that the bread and wine become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, it was Christ's idea. The whole of the Gospel of John leads up to the Eucharist and Chapter 6 lays out the truth very clearly in the very words of Christ I have never understood how you evangelical types who claim to use only the Bible can gloss over John Chapter 6. Jesus time and time again in John tells us we have to eat his Body and drink His Blood. Your unbelief in spite of Biblical proof found in John is amazing! But you are in good company, a lot of his disciples left because he would not water down his statement.

John 6:66 says; (hmm, 666 - coincidence? Yeah it's a coincidence, but I think it is a good one)
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]"As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him."
I urge you to get beyond John 3:16 and review Chapter 6 and remove the blinders from your eyes. Jesus gave us a very valuable gift -. Your argument against the Eucharist is as follows:
*Now I ask you, dear reader, does this ring true in your heart? ( My answer: YES very much so) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is actually transformed into the physical appearance of bread and wine? (My answer YES) Can you actually worship this bread-god? (My answer, it is NOT bread-Jesus, the Son of God says it is Him) Do you actually believe that this bread made by human hands can be sacrificed for your sins and that you are granted a pardon from God by this offering? Do you believe that by eating this heavenly food you can obtain eternal life? ( My answer YES because of what Jesus said ) I ask you to read what the Catechism of the Catholic Churches says in light of the Holy Bible. (They are in agreement, thank you for the suggestion) *
I would ask you, in light of John Chapter 6, would YOU like to reconsider what you would say about the Eucharist? The fact is that for the first 1500 years of Christianity there was NO CONTROVERSY over this belief. There is a lot more proof for the Truth about the Eucharist, but I am sure you never even got this far in the email. If you want some more information on how you can become a Catholic, let me know. The Catholic Church is the depository of all of the truth about God that He has revealed to us. She is protected against teaching error by the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ. She alone can be proven to have the four marks of the Church that Jesus founded, namely, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Luther went outside the will of God when he chopped the Church asunder. Which version of Protestant truth should I believe ? There are 39,000 protestant denominations, each laying claim to the truth. I believe you are people of good will. I urge you to study the Bible with an eye to the truth and you will be led to the Church that Jesus (not Luther, or Knox or Calvin) founded and we will be glad to have you back home.
[/FONT]

It only took a short scan of the comparisons between the catechism and the bible quotes to realize they're cherry-picking and taking things out of context. This is never, ever a good way to approach an argument and, thus, can be summarily ignored. Many of the biblical "retorts" they offered didn't even make any sense. Sadly, many people are easily fooled by this kind of drivel. The standards for logic and argumentation are low amongst common people, but hopefully too many of them won't fall prey to this pathetic attempt at denigrating our holy church.

Peace be with you!

[quote="mike52ad, post:5, topic:184199"]
I sent them the following email
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:44 PM
Subject: What you need to know

Dear sirs,

I have reviewed your website with great interest and am sad to say you are misinformed about many things about the Catholic Church. I was disappointed that although your site appears to be professionally designed, it is littered with errors, half truths, and simply stuff that has been made up. Let me address one subject that you really need to read the Church's Book on, by the Church's book I mean the Bible. Remember the Church came first and then came the Bible.

The Eucharist:
It is not the Catholic Church's idea that the bread and wine become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, it was Christ's idea. The whole of the Gospel of John leads up to the Eucharist and Chapter 6 lays out the truth very clearly in the very words of Christ I have never understood how you evangelical types who claim to use only the Bible can gloss over John Chapter 6. Jesus time and time again in John tells us we have to eat his Body and drink His Blood. Your unbelief in spite of Biblical proof found in John is amazing! But you are in good company, a lot of his disciples left because he would not water down his statement.

John 6:66 says; (hmm, 666 - coincidence? Yeah it's a coincidence, but I think it is a good one)
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]"As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him."
I urge you to get beyond John 3:16 and review Chapter 6 and remove the blinders from your eyes. Jesus gave us a very valuable gift -. Your argument against the Eucharist is as follows:
Now I ask you, dear reader, does this ring true in your heart? ( My answer: YES very much so) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is actually transformed into the physical appearance of bread and wine? (My answer YES) Can you actually worship this bread-god? (My answer, it is NOT bread-Jesus, the Son of God says it is Him) Do you actually believe that this bread made by human hands can be sacrificed for your sins and that you are granted a pardon from God by this offering? Do you believe that by eating this heavenly food you can obtain eternal life? ( My answer YES because of what Jesus said ) I ask you to read what the Catechism of the Catholic Churches says in light of the Holy Bible. (They are in agreement, thank you for the suggestion)
I would ask you, in light of John Chapter 6, would YOU like to reconsider what you would say about the Eucharist? The fact is that for the first 1500 years of Christianity there was NO CONTROVERSY over this belief. There is a lot more proof for the Truth about the Eucharist, but I am sure you never even got this far in the email. If you want some more information on how you can become a Catholic, let me know. The Catholic Church is the depository of all of the truth about God that He has revealed to us. She is protected against teaching error by the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ. She alone can be proven to have the four marks of the Church that Jesus founded, namely, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Luther went outside the will of God when he chopped the Church asunder. Which version of Protestant truth should I believe ? There are 39,000 protestant denominations, each laying claim to the truth. I believe you are people of good will. I urge you to study the Bible with an eye to the truth and you will be led to the Church that Jesus (not Luther, or Knox or Calvin) founded and we will be glad to have you back home.
[/FONT]

[/quote]

Good effort mike !

I hope they read it all (esp Jn 6)_

Thx for taking the time to educate them.
Sadly, it has been my experience that teaching the truth to a fundamentalist is a lot like performing an exorcism

"If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself." St. Augustine

[quote="ruktastic, post:6, topic:184199"]
It only took a short scan of the comparisons between the catechism and the bible quotes to realize they're cherry-picking and taking things out of context. This is never, ever a good way to approach an argument and, thus, can be summarily ignored. Many of the biblical "retorts" they offered didn't even make any sense. Sadly, many people are easily fooled by this kind of drivel. The standards for logic and argumentation are low amongst common people, but hopefully too many of them won't fall prey to this pathetic attempt at denigrating our holy church.

Peace be with you!

[/quote]

The sad thing is, people see quotes from the bible and think that if someone quotes the bible they must know what they are talking about, even as you said, none of the quotes make a lick of sense...

[quote="GrahamAPhone, post:8, topic:184199"]
The sad thing is, people see quotes from the bible and think that if someone quotes the bible they must know what they are talking about, even as you said, none of the quotes make a lick of sense...

[/quote]

*That's why Jesus gave us His One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church led by St. Peter & his successors! *

Well educated & well meaning people can misinterpret Scripture, as evidenced by those who say Jesus was speaking "figuratively" in John 6....

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

[quote="GrahamAPhone, post:1, topic:184199"]
has anybody been to this site?

I was looking at some of the stuff it claimed and couldn't see how anyone with a knowledge of scripture could believe any of it...

They blatantly quote scripture out of context.

Now...
discuss.
lol

[/quote]

i thought about sending them an email but i am afraid they woud sell my email to the world and i woud be receiving all kind of emails.

[quote="mike52ad, post:5, topic:184199"]
I sent them the following email
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 11:44 PM
Subject: What you need to know

Dear sirs,

I have reviewed your website with great interest and am sad to say you are misinformed about many things about the Catholic Church. I was disappointed that although your site appears to be professionally designed, it is littered with errors, half truths, and simply stuff that has been made up. Let me address one subject that you really need to read the Church's Book on, by the Church's book I mean the Bible. Remember the Church came first and then came the Bible.

John 6:66 says; (hmm, 666 - coincidence? Yeah it's a coincidence, but I think it is a good one)
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]"As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him."
I urge you to get beyond John 3:16 and review Chapter 6 and remove the blinders from your eyes. Jesus gave us a very valuable gift -. Your argument against the Eucharist is as follows:
Now I ask you, dear reader, does this ring true in your heart? ( My answer: YES very much so) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is actually transformed into the physical appearance of bread and wine? (My answer YES) Can you actually worship this bread-god? (My answer, it is NOT bread-Jesus, the Son of God says it is Him) Do you actually believe that this bread made by human hands can be sacrificed for your sins and that you are granted a pardon from God by this offering? Do you believe that by eating this heavenly food you can obtain eternal life? ( My answer YES because of what Jesus said ) I ask you to read what the Catechism of the Catholic Churches says in light of the Holy Bible. (They are in agreement, thank you for the suggestion)
I would ask you, in light of John Chapter 6, would YOU like to reconsider what you would say about the Eucharist? The fact is that for the first 1500 years of Christianity there was NO CONTROVERSY over this belief. There is a lot more proof for the Truth about the Eucharist, but I am sure you never even got this far in the email. If you want some more information on how you can become a Catholic, let me know. The Catholic Church is the depository of all of the truth about God that He has revealed to us. She is protected against teaching error by the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ. She alone can be proven to have the four marks of the Church that Jesus founded, namely, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Luther went outside the will of God when he chopped the Church asunder. Which version of Protestant truth should I believe ? There are 39,000 protestant denominations, each laying claim to the truth. I believe you are people of good will. I urge you to study the Bible with an eye to the truth and you will be led to the Church that Jesus (not Luther, or Knox or Calvin) founded and we will be glad to have you back home.

i
[/FONT]

[/quote]

very good. i wrote this but did not send.

here is:

with what authority do you teach Sacred Scriptures?

who sent you to teach?

were you there with Jesus?

how did you get this Book, the Bible. did you compiled these Scriptures?

do you claim to know Scriptures against a Church found by Christ?

dont you know that these things were written long ago before you came to the world? how is it that you claim to understand what they are saying?

about the Eucharist. what do you know about it? the Church did not invent this. Jesus is the One saying: "This is my Body, this is my Blood." what part of this dont you understand? who made you an authority in Scriptures? are you a Jew? only the Jews can understand what Jesus is saying, not you. you have not received the Revelation of God. you have not received the Laws of God, the jews did. therefore you cannot understand any of this.

who gave you any authority to declare the Church is wrong in anything? besides what you are doing here is claiming authority which was given to One Church and One Church alone.

what every Catholic should know is how to defend the Church against falsehood like this in here. for example, you wouldnt stand against me with your falsehood.

father Corapi, once said: "Any Spirit speaking against the Church Jesus found, it is not the Spirit of God." that is how we recognize the Spirit of Truth.

you quote Scriptures which i could also quote to expose your falsehood. since you are the ones of today. the Church has been here for 2000 years. she was warned of people like you who would come and deceive many in the Church.

it is illicit for you to Quote Scriptures from a Book that belongs to the CC alone. it was written for the Church.

this Book was stolen from the Church by rebellious man. so, dont proud yoursevels to think that you know what you are talking about. the noble thing for you to do is to repent and ask for forgiveness for those who did this and return the Sacred Book back where it belongs, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Peace.

[quote="wisdomseeker, post:10, topic:184199"]
i thought about sending them an email but i am afraid they woud sell my email to the world and i woud be receiving all kind of emails.

[/quote]

You could always create a free email account on Yahoo or GMail.....

[quote="regression, post:12, topic:184199"]
You could always create a free email account on Yahoo or GMail.....

[/quote]

thanks.

WOW - someone, a “former Catholic” responded to my email - the responses are right out of Jack Chic’s KuKu Land Playbook…This poor deluded persons responses are in red…

The Eucharist:
It is not the Catholic Church’s idea that the bread and wine become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, it was Christ’s idea. The whole of the Gospel of John leads up to the Eucharist and Chapter 6 lays out the truth veryclearly in the very words of Christ I have never understood how you evangelical types who claim to use only the Bible can gloss over John Chapter 6. Jesus time and time again in John tells us we have to eat his Body and drink His Blood. Your unbelief in spite of Biblical proof found in John is amazing! But you are in good company, a lot of his disciples left because he would not water down his statement.

No you are quite mistaken, it is a pagan idea that was not even excepted into Catholicism until the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 A.D., were it was officially defined and canonized as a dogma.

If you want a further study try here:
helpforcatholics.org/estore/read/The_Mystery.pdf

John 6:66 says; (hmm, 666 - coincidence? Yeah it’s a coincidence, but I think it is a good one)
"As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him."
I urge you to get beyond John 3:16 and review Chapter 6 and remove the blinders from your eyes. Jesus gave us a very valuable gift -. Your argument against the Eucharist is as follows:
Now I ask you, dear reader, does this ring true in your heart? ( My answer: YES very much so) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is actually transformed into the physical appearance of bread and wine? (My answer YES) Can you actually worship this bread-god? (My answer, it is NOT bread-Jesus, the Son of God says it is Him) Do you actually believe that this bread made by human hands can be sacrificed for your sins and that you are granted a pardon from God by this offering? Do you believe that by eating this heavenly food you can obtain eternal life? ( My answer YES because of what Jesus said ) I ask you to read what the Catechism of the Catholic Churches says in light of the Holy Bible. (They are in agreement, thank you for the suggestion)

May God have mercy on you for having been so lied to.

I would ask you, in light of John Chapter 6, would YOU like to reconsider what you would say about the Eucharist? The fact is that for the first 1500 years of Christianity there was NO CONTROVERSY over this belief.

You really have been deceived. The doctrine of transubstantiation does not date back to the Last Supper as is supposed. It was a controverted topic for many centuries before officially becoming an article of faith, which means that it is essential to salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church. The idea of a corporal presence was vaguely held by some, such as Ambrose, but it was not until 831 A.D. that Paschasius Radbertus, a Benedictine monk, published a treatise openly advocating the doctrine of transubstantiation. Even then, for almost another four hundred years, theological war was waged over this teaching by bishops and people alike until at the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 A.D., it was officially defined and canonized as a dogma.

There is a lot more proof for the Truth about the Eucharist, but I am sure you never even got this far in the email. If you want some more information on how you can become a Catholic, let me know.

No thanks, I was born, raised and confirmed as a Catholic, now that the Lord has saved me from that I would never go back.

The Catholic Church is the depository of all of the truth about God that He has revealed to us. She is protected against teaching error by the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ. She alone can be proven to have the four marks of the Church that Jesus founded, namely, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Luther went outside the will of God when he chopped the Church asunder.

I guess the burden of proof rest with you trying to prove that statement about being the depository of all of the truth. But you will first have to prove that the Catholic Church is Christian as defined in scripture.

Luther was a Catholic monk and quite well educated, so were all the great reformers, Catholic Priest who were driven by God to open the scriptures, men such as John Wycliffe 1320?s-1384 , John Huss 1371-1415, William Tyndale 1494-1536, John Calvin 1509-1564, John Knox 1505-1572 and Ulrich Zwingli 1484-1531, just to name a few. They shared the bible with a people who lived in darkness, people under the grip of the Roman Catholic church for centuries, that is why this period in history before the reformation is called the dark ages.

Which version of Protestant truth should I believe ? There are 39,000 protestant denominations, each laying claim to the truth.

I suggest you look at this from another perspective, please read:
ntrmin.org/30000denominations.htm

I am sure you will not, you probably stopped reading after I challenged your bread god theory.

I believe you are people of good will. I urge you to study the Bible with an eye to the truth and you will be led to the Church that Jesus (not Luther, or Knox or Calvin) founded and we will be glad to have you back home.

No, I have been content following Luther, Knox and Calvin away from Rome and its coming judgments

A bunch of very sick (spiritually) and mislead people. Pray for them, and offer your Holy Communion for their conversion - they need all the help they can get.

~Liza

wow! this is amazing. much hate in there. maybe it is better to stay away.

this is the answer i got.

here is: with what authority do you teach Sacred Scriptures?The scriptures are there own authority, they speak for themselves. You nullify the scriptures with your tradition. who sent you to teach?My gifts are exhortation and discernment and they are from the Holy Spirit. were you there with Jesus?Not when He was on earth in a physical form but I am with His Holy Spirit today. how did you get this Book, the Bible. did you compiled these Scriptures?I purchased bibles and have received them as gifts, they are also available on line for free. They were written by holy men of God long before there was anything similar to the Roman Catholic church. do you claim to know Scriptures against a Church found by Christ? Jesus had not found the Roman Catholic Church, your church is the church found by the very antichrist, Satan himself. dont you know that these things were written long ago before you came to the world? how is it that you claim to understand what they are saying?Yes, Gods word is settled in the Heavens, it is the Spirit that leads us into all truth, His word is truth. about the Eucharist. what do you know about it? the Church did not invent this. Jesus is the One saying: “This is my Body, this is my Blood.” what part of this dont you understand? who made you an authority in Scriptures? are you a Jew? only the Jews can understand what Jesus is saying, not you. you have not received the Revelation of God. you have not received the Laws of God, the jews did. therefore you cannot understand any of this. The doctrine of transubstantiation does not date back to the Last Supper as is supposed. It was a controverted topic for many centuries before officially becoming an article of faith, which means that it is essential to salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church. The idea of a corporal presence was vaguely held by some, such as Ambrose, but it was not until 831 A.D. that Paschasius Radbertus, a Benedictine monk, published a treatise openly advocating the doctrine of transubstantiation. Even then, for almost another four hundred years, theological war was waged over this teaching by bishops and people alike until at the Fourth Lateradefined and canonized as a dogma. who gave you any authority to declare the Church is wrong in anything? besides what you are doing here is claiming authority which was given to One Church and One Church alone. The scriptures command Christians to:Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. what every Catholic should know is how to defend the Church against falsehood like this in here. for example, you wouldnt stand against me with your falsehood. I am not worried about what you think. It is only what God has spoken that matters. father Corapi, once said: “Any Spirit speaking against the Church Jesus found, it is not the Spirit of God.” that is how we recognize the Spirit of Truth. The Bible says: 1 John 4:2-4 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.Father Corapi says that Jesus comes in the form of a man made cookie called the Eucharist. you quote Scriptures which i could also quote to expose your falsehood. since you are the ones of today. the Church has been here for 2000 years. she was warned of people like you who would come and deceive many in the Church. No, your church has been around for roughly 1500 years. The new testament scriptures date back to the time of the Apostles and the Old testament dates back to Moses. it is illicit for you to Quote Scriptures from a Book that belongs to the CC alone. it was written for the Church. Your church not only despises the word of God but has spent centuries torturing and killing people who have gratefully and freely received and believed the written word of God. this Book was stolen from the Church by rebellious man. so, dont proud yoursevels to think that you know what you are talking about. the noble thing for you to do is to repent and ask for forgiveness for those who did this and return the Sacred Book back where it belongs, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. May god have Mercy on your soul.
Greg Bentley

Here is what I responded to them:

To: [EMAIL="info@whateverycatholicshouldknow.com"]info@whateverycatholicshouldknow.com[/EMAIL]
Subject: RE: What you need to know
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:19:09 -0600

Dear Greg,

Thank you so much for your reply. Your response was well written and thoughtful, my compliments you are a fairly skilled wordsmith, but your arguments are not unfortunately compelling. As a Protestant you believe in sola scriptura yet you fail to mention any Scripture in your response. I think you must be getting most of what you say from that tome of errors written by Lorraine Boettner, "Roman Catholicism". Friend Boettner, (just like Jack Chic) is not bound by the truth and thus the task of writing becomes not writing to expond the truth rather to convince no matter what the truth is. The fact of the matter is that predjuice against Catholics is the last politically correct predjudice. (I am NOT saying that you are predjudiced.) People like Boettner and Chic are in the business of hate and their writings seek to have people give away their gold (their Catholic Christian heritage) for clay. The arguments you make might have come from the pen of Boettner or Chic, it does not matter. I have heard them all before and they just do not make sense in the light of the very words of Jesus in the Bible. It is kind of ironic isn't it, me a Catholic, using Scripture.

Greg, thank you. I appreciate the time you took to pen your reply. I still think someone as thoughtful as you would do well to reconsider your position on the Church, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You will be in my prayers and I will pray that the Light of Christ will burn brightly in your soul.

May Jesus Christ hold you in the palm of His hand until the day you return home.

Michael

[quote="mike52ad, post:17, topic:184199"]
Here is what I responded to them:

To: [EMAIL="info@whateverycatholicshouldknow.com"]info@whateverycatholicshouldknow.com[/EMAIL]
Subject: RE: What you need to know
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:19:09 -0600

Dear Greg,

Thank you so much for your reply. Your response was well written and thoughtful, my compliments you are a fairly skilled wordsmith, but your arguments are not unfortunately compelling. As a Protestant you believe in sola scriptura yet you fail to mention any Scripture in your response. I think you must be getting most of what you say from that tome of errors written by Lorraine Boettner, "Roman Catholicism". Friend Boettner, (just like Jack Chic) is not bound by the truth and thus the task of writing becomes not writing to expond the truth rather to convince no matter what the truth is. The fact of the matter is that predjuice against Catholics is the last politically correct predjudice. (I am NOT saying that you are predjudiced.) People like Boettner and Chic are in the business of hate and their writings seek to have people give away their gold (their Catholic Christian heritage) for clay. The arguments you make might have come from the pen of Boettner or Chic, it does not matter. I have heard them all before and they just do not make sense in the light of the very words of Jesus in the Bible. It is kind of ironic isn't it, me a Catholic, using Scripture.

Greg, thank you. I appreciate the time you took to pen your reply. I still think someone as thoughtful as you would do well to reconsider your position on the Church, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You will be in my prayers and I will pray that the Light of Christ will burn brightly in your soul.

May Jesus Christ hold you in the palm of His hand until the day you return home.

Michael

[/quote]

well done Michael. this should put fire on his head.

[quote="mike52ad, post:17, topic:184199"]
I appreciate the time you took to pen your reply.

[/quote]

Don't be too impressed - these places have catalogs of pre-worded responses that they cut and paste together to regurgitate back at you. There is no scholarship there.

Good for you though for trying to tell them the Truth. They have been told, and on their last day they will be held accountable on what they have done with that knowledge.

~Liza

It is sites like these that unsuspecting Catholics, who may be searching or spiritually vulnerable, can be deceived and in the end possibly fall away. Also unsuspecting Protestants can stumble onto this site and then incorrectly learn what they think the Catholic Church teaches. These people call themselves Christians and Catholic, when in reality they are doing the devils work.

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