What happens when you "win"?

I see a lot of threads here and on various Christian websites attacking some people’s religious beliefs. Certain churches, denominations and religions are often “piled on”, such as Islam, Mormonism, the Jehovah’s Witnesses etc.

My question for those who attack these faiths - what is your goal?

It seems to me that a majority of people from many of these more controversial churches who are “deconverted” end up walking away from God and religion entirely. And they tend to turn their back completely on all religious conceptions of morality around sexual behavior, etc.

Is it better for someone to believe in God but have certain errors in their religious beliefs, or to become strident opponents of all religion and live according to materialistic, sensualist values?

It depends on their God’s commandments or their interpretation of them.

The goal is Truth.

So if someone leaves behind Mormonism and becomes a jaded antitheistic nihilist, are they closer to truth or further away?

I ask because I work with an ex-Mormon atheist who has absolutely nothing good to say about Mormonism, or the Catholic Church either.

It just seems to me that the strategy of religious people attacking one another’s beliefs leads to more and more overall disgust for religion.

I agree. I wish people would realize more often that the end results of their aggressive “apologetics” are as you said above. I think it’s arrogant to assume that if someone succeeds in undermining their targeted person’s faith in what they formerly believed, that the person will adopt the apologist’s religious beliefs.

That’s what everyone says, on all sides.

My personal opinion is that people who bash religion, any religion are deeply unhappy people. This is different form someone who has decided it’s not for them.
People who feel the need to tear down another’s beliefs (assuming that the religion does not advocate harmful things) are damaged. They want a place to lay blame. They want to have someone to hate. Someone to blame for their lack of happiness, success, contentment, historical issues, whatever. It’s easy to blame religion. Faith doesn’t talk back. Faith, on it’s own, is fairly passive and easy to attack. Just argue your point, and you’re off and running.
God never forces Himself on anyone. He waits.
But the believers? Open season. The point is:
None of us should take the bait. Nothing foils this hatred, or causes a heart to turn toward God quicker than kindness. Once people see a true believer, or encounter a true child of God, they begin to realize that it’s not God that is the problem.
Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to realize when we have been wrong, harsh, or hard.

Just my 2 cents.

If a person goes from one false belief to another false belief, how is that he fault of a perosn who is speaking the Truth. Assuming the person speaking IS speaking the truth and is being genuine and not simply hating on other people, I don’t see why you assume that your coworker became an atheist because of Catholics telling them that Mormonism has some false beliefs. Perhaps he is still seeking? Many people go through several phases when they search for Truth. I know I did.

That’s why there are so many forums like this. Everyone is seeking Truth.

I wasn’t singling out Catholics.

I’ve seen people of every faith do it, sadly including my own!

I just think a negative approach to others belief systems (which is really like our home) is wrong. It’s like tearing down the house someone is living in because the roof leaks and leaving the person homeless.

I think we should share what we find beautiful, noble and true, but not attack the beliefs of others.

Presumably, when a person of faith “tears down” an error in someone else’s theology, they offer a truth to fill the void. Unless, of course the person is preaching atheism.

May God deliver us, for all have different versions of the truth.

:frowning: So many people say that the difference of opinions makes this world more fun to live in, but given the conflicts which comes with it, I’d rather have us all think the same…but on second thought, it wouldn’t be that much better, considering the great flood during Genesis.

God save us.

Generally speaking, I don´t find it convincing, or persuasive, when someone singles out one specific faith to attack of late.

I don´t think that approach is very effective. I’ve had few times in my life where nagging changed my position. Usually, other means were more effective in reaching me, for anyone trying to.

I actually think when the person accepts me, on some level, first, THAT is helpful. I am more likely, later, to be swayed by what he says, take any suggestions more to heart than someone who just blames and attacks.

Sarcasm, especially, I find especially off-putting, if that would be the proper term to describe it, a turn off. Empathy is what reaches me best.

We already won. :smiley: Jesus saved mankind. The choice is yours to believe that Jesus the Way the Truth and the Life (Everlasting Life).


As a Catholic I don’t worry about this option. :wink:


I hardly think that telling a person how wrong they are, or how false their religion is a good way to convert them.

In fact, it is a good way to make someone defensive, and to create huge divides where there might’ve been none!

We can see in instances in the Gospels, the Apostles go from town to town for all to hear the Good news of Christ! It doesn’t say “And then the Apostles engaged in a lengthy dressing down session in order to let the Muslim know how much his religion sucked”.

Acts 8:40 “Philip came to Azotus, and went about proclaiming the good news to all the towns until he reached Caesarea.”

I have learned the hard way that beating someone upside the head with a Catechism doesn’t work. I think we also lose sight of what we’re trying to do: bring people to a relationship with Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, it’s easy to get sidetracked with a conceited bravado when defending the faith, which ends in us turning away to masturbate over how we’re not only more righteous than those heathens, we’re also smarter than them! :rolleyes: .

I, of all people, have fallen into this trap countless times. And I still do.

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Two scriptures come to mind:
“Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and reverence.” 1 Peter 3:15 This makes the point that we always must be respectful and charitable when sharing the faith.

The other is this: “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free" John 8:32 Why would we want to withhold the truth from anyone? There are countless examples of persons who become Catholic later in life and wonder why no one had the courage or interest to share the faith with them earlier.

You can’t tell me you haven’t noticed the continuous threads attacking Joseph Smith and Muhammad here, can you?

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