What if there is only one Christian Church.


#1

Ok, I have been thinking about this, and in light of certain events, I have decided that this is the time to raise the question. Here goes.

What if there is only one Christian church…the Catholic church. Just assume for a second that Jesus ordained the church and that was just what he intended. Now, being that we have free will to do what we want, some people determined that they did not want to accept the teachings of the Catholic Church…and through it the teachings of Jesus. So, they break with the church in the 1500’s, and in doing so…they defy Jesus and his teaching.

What then?

Bottom line here is this, we all believe that the teaching of Christ should be followed. Well, if he told us to establish the Catholic Church and people broke with it, those people have gone against him.

Has anyone considered this?


#2

[quote=sadie2723]Ok, I have been thinking about this, and in light of certain events, I have decided that this is the time to raise the question. Here goes.

What if there is only one Christian church…the Catholic church. Just assume for a second that Jesus ordained the church and that was just what he intended. Now, being that we have free will to do what we want, some people determined that they did not want to accept the teachings of the Catholic Church…and through it the teachings of Jesus. So, they break with the church in the 1500’s, and in doing so…they defy Jesus and his teaching.

What then?

Bottom line here is this, we all believe that the teaching of Christ should be followed. Well, if he told us to establish the Catholic Church and people broke with it, those people have gone against him.

Has anyone considered this?
[/quote]

Why would we not have considered it.

You know, anyone on this board has probably thought about this over and over.

Supposing a thing to be true does not make it true.

Edwin


#3

[quote=Contarini]Why would we not have considered it.

You know, anyone on this board has probably thought about this over and over.

Supposing a thing to be true does not make it true.

Edwin
[/quote]

Thanks man…that is why it is a question and not a statment of fact.


#4

Most who have come to the place where they decided to convert from Protestantism or other Christian denominations to the Catholic Church, have obviously thought about this to the point that it wasn’t possible anymore to not convert. That is going to be a natural part of the reasoning process, it’s the part that gives you a headache for months on end until you cave. :banghead:

But if you haven’t even thought that the Catholic Church might even be Christian, let alone have any truth in it, (which is where a lot of Protestant/Evangelical/Fundamentalist are in their thinking of Catholicism) you’re not going to even entertain the thought that Catholicism may be THE ONE, exclusive of any others, it’s just not on the radar screen.

So, by the time you get around to contemplating whether Catholicism could be *THE ONE * , and maybe there aren’t any other true churches, you’re almost converted anyway, and if not, you’re just hanging by a thread.

Of course, I’m only speaking from experience, and from what I have gleened from a lot of other converts so far. Everyone’s journey has unique elements.


#5

To all:

Not just Catholic church or any other church should be judged based on what it teaches and not merely on it’s history.

Unfortunately, as far Catholic church, it’s main teachings are not even compatible or in harmony with the reported words of Jesus in your 3 synoptics and John’s “gospel”, let alone a true Church of Jesus.

This Church too is basically due to Paul’s corruption/manipulation. Sooner the Catholics realise it the better otherwise Jesus on his second coming will show a clear mirror to all Churches, anyway, but it will be too late at that time.

Read atleast Matthew 12:50 and it’s footnote carefully in your New American Bible which says:

[INDENT][N]atural kinship with Jesus counts for nothing; only one who does **the will of his heavenly Father ** belongs to his true family

[/INDENT]

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew12.htm#foot33 ]



#6

[quote=freedomm]To all:

Catholic church or any other church should be judged based on what it teaches and not merely on it’s history.

Unfortunately, as far Catholic church, it’s main teachings are not even compatible or in harmony with the reported words of Jesus in your 3 synoptics and John’s “gospel”, let alone a true Church of Jesus.

This Church too is basically due to Paul’s corruption/manipulation. Sooner the Catholics realise it the better otherwise Jesus on his second coming will show a clear mirror to all Churches, anyway, but it will be too late at that time.

Read atleast Matthew 12:50 and it’s footnote carefully in your New American Bible [usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew12.htm]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew12.htm])
[/quote]

See Sadie2723 -

NOT EVEN ON THE RADAR


#7

The “church” is a body of believers and followers of Jesus Christ. I am not Catholic, but I am a member of the Body.

When one part of the body is under attack, how can the rest of the body not flinch?


#8

[quote=freedomm]To all:

Catholic church or any other church should be judged based on what it teaches and not merely on it’s history.

Unfortunately, as far Catholic church, it’s main teachings are not even compatible or in harmony with the reported words of Jesus in your 3 synoptics and John’s “gospel”, let alone a true Church of Jesus.

This Church too is basically due to Paul’s corruption/manipulation. Sooner the Catholics realise it the better otherwise Jesus on his second coming will show a clear mirror to all Churches, anyway, but it will be too late at that time.

Read atleast Matthew 12:50 and it’s footnote carefully in your New American Bible [usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew12.htm]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew12.htm])
[/quote]

That’s interesting. What leads you to believe Paul to have been corrupt? How do you view him as manipulating?

I have heard that some of Paul’s teachings do not jibe with the original Christian message, but have not researched this. I have also heard claims that this is not true.

It would be interesting to know, because it may have an impact on the church(es) Christ founded, etc.


#9

[quote=neweyes]The “church” is a body of believers and followers of Jesus Christ. I am not Catholic, but I am a member of the Body.

When one part of the body is under attack, how can the rest of the body not flinch?
[/quote]

This is how I’ve grown to understand the meaning also. Christ’s "body’ or “church” comprises all of Christianity (that adheres to the Two Great Commandments, and the beatitudes, forgiveness… the basics).


#10

[quote=ReformedCatholic]That’s interesting. What leads you to believe Paul to have been corrupt? How do you view him as manipulating?

I have heard that some of Paul’s teachings do not jibe with the original Christian message, but have not researched this. I have also heard claims that this is not true.

It would be interesting to know, because it may have an impact on the church(es) Christ founded, etc.
[/quote]

He’s a Muslim. You can ignore him.


#11

[quote=ReformedCatholic]That’s interesting. What leads you to believe Paul to have been corrupt? How do you view him as manipulating?

I have heard that some of Paul’s teachings do not jibe with the original Christian message, but have not researched this. I have also heard claims that this is not true.

It would be interesting to know, because it may have an impact on the church(es) Christ founded, etc.
[/quote]

Dear ReformedCatholic:

There are ways to reach/figure out to the reality of Paul. Since you seem to have a Christian background, I recommend you these books:

[INDENT]The Dead Sea Scrolls Deceptions by: Michael Baigent & Richard Leigh and it’s atleast the Chapter titled: Paul - Roman Agent or Informer?

and:

The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered : The 1ST complete Translation interpretation of 50 Key Documents Withheld for Over 35 Years
by Robert H. Eisenman, Michael Wise
"These texts constitute some of the most thought-provoking in the corpus…"

[INDENT]Robert Eisenman is Professor of Middle East Religions and Archaeology and Director of the Institute for the Study of Judeo-Christian Origins at California State University, Long Beach. He is is consultant for the Huntington Library in the struggle to free the Scrolls. [/INDENT]

You can start with this:

Paul as Herodian

by: **Robert Eisenman **

Institute for Jewish-Christian Origins
California State University at Long Beach
depts.drew.edu/jhc/eisenman.html ][/INDENT]


#12

[quote=freedomm]http://www.depts.drew.edu/jhc/eisenman.html
[/quote]

The site you gave is linked to the “Jesus Seminar” which is bunk!


#13

I’m sure early Christians, who had never even
heard the word Catholic used in the way we
use it today, needed some encouragement
and affirmation concerning their salvation
and their fellowship in the body of Christ.

In 1 John we find these words of encouragement
and the Litmus Test for all believers concerning
this most important and eternal information…

“5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”

bro jack :thumbsup:


#14

[quote=sadie2723]Thanks man…that is why it is a question and not a statment of fact.
[/quote]

I understand that. I’m just not sure whom you are addressing.

Perhaps I was brought up with more ecclesiological awareness than most Protestants. But from my earliest days I was quite aware that there was supposed to be one Church, and would have recognized this was prima facie evidence in favor of those ecclesiastical bodies (Catholic Church, Orthodox Church, or for that matter rather different groups like the “Churches of Christ”) who in some sense claim to be that Church. I was taught that this “one Church” was “invisible.” But this was quite obviously not the first thing one would assume. In other words, Protestants who hold to a through-going “invisible church” ecclesiology have already thought through the question you are raising and have come up with a less than obvious answer to it.

Edwin


#15

My point is this…I think that I was a bit unclear in the beginning…if Jesus established the Catholic Church (and I feel sure that he did) is the reformation, and all of the churches that spawned from it that now call themselves Protestant, in and of itself sinful? If Jesus ordained the Catholic faith with knowledge of how the church would represent him on Earth, would it not be a sin to defy his ordination?


#16

[quote=sadie2723]My point is this…I think that I was a bit unclear in the beginning…if Jesus established the Catholic Church (and I feel sure that he did) is the reformation, and all of the churches that spawned from it that now call themselves Protestant, in and of itself sinful? If Jesus ordained the Catholic faith with knowledge of how the church would represent him on Earth, would it not be a sin to defy his ordination?
[/quote]

What you are actually discussing here is formal and material heresy.

Those persons who left the Catholic Church to embrace their own theologies are formal heretics because they left knowing the teaching of the Church and yet rejected parts of it with full knowledge and will. They were/are fully culpable for their heresy.

Those persons who were born into Protestant denominations are material heretics who do not know the Catholic Church is the one, true Church, visible and invisible, or that they are connected to it, although imperfectly, due to their trinitarian baptism. They are not culpable for their heresy.

It is baptism that connects all Christians to Christ’s one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, not belief alone, although belief probably indicates a desire for baptism if the baptism they received was not valid.


#17

[quote=sadie2723]Ok, I have been thinking about this, and in light of certain events, I have decided that this is the time to raise the question. Here goes.

What if there is only one Christian church…the Catholic church. Just assume for a second that Jesus ordained the church and that was just what he intended. Now, being that we have free will to do what we want, some people determined that they did not want to accept the teachings of the Catholic Church…and through it the teachings of Jesus. So, they break with the church in the 1500’s, and in doing so…they defy Jesus and his teaching.

What then?

Bottom line here is this, we all believe that the teaching of Christ should be followed. Well, if he told us to establish the Catholic Church and people broke with it, those people have gone against him.

Has anyone considered this?
[/quote]

I don’t agree with you on this one Brother. God’s church is about love, just like in Heaven everyone Love each other, God is the judge whether who is going to make it in Heaven or not. The true church for me is not here on earth but in Heaven. Just because you think the RCC is the true church may not be, the fact is noone knows, you can only guess, and only God can know what is truly in your heart. I pray that all the church will reunite one day and walk in love. That is one of God’s greatest commandments is to love God and one another.

So let’s all Walk In Love, and preach The Lord Jesus is our savior. :thumbsup:


#18

[quote=TrustInTheLord]

So let’s all Walk In Love

, and preach The Lord Jesus is our savior. :thumbsup:
[/quote]

for Jesus’ sake ! yes !! all in Christ :yup:

:amen:


#19

Thanks guys for all of your comments. I was just posing the hypothetical question to see what you all thought. Thanks again!


#20

[quote=Della]What you are actually discussing here is formal and material heresy.

Those persons who left the Catholic Church to embrace their own theologies are formal heretics because they left knowing the teaching of the Church and yet rejected parts of it with full knowledge and will. They were/are fully culpable for their heresy.

Those persons who were born into Protestant denominations are material heretics who do not know the Catholic Church is the one, true Church, visible and invisible, or that they are connected to it, although imperfectly, due to their trinitarian baptism. They are not culpable for their heresy.

It is baptism that connects all Christians to Christ’s one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, not belief alone, although belief probably indicates a desire for baptism if the baptism they received was not valid.
[/quote]

So now its done, now what? :confused: I have enough of a time trying to talk to people that there is even God, let alone Jesus and the Holy Spirit really wigs them out.

Now I have to say there is only one church cause all the rest are wrong? Doenst anyone know how much christians NOT AGREEING affects the un saved. Not the ones who may be baptist the ones who dont know God at all. I find it the #1excuse is that Gee the churches cant even agree on who or what is right, so what am I to believe??

I hate the fact that church choice is a stumbling block. And this as you described yea though it may be what happened, Still does not erase the fact its another set of confusion for one to find God. In a ever increasing confused world.

The church is supposed to be ALL of us and probably some suprises we dont expect. The church is bigger than catholics, baptists, lutherans, pentacostals, charasmatics etc. God sees our hearts, and knows whether we see Him.

Walk in love yes I agree, love one another as He has loved us.


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