What If...

What does the Cathlic church say about abortion in the case of rape or incest? I am just curious because the subject came up on another thread…What if the girl is 12 or 13?

I am very anti-choice even in this case but I would like to know if a girl this young is in this situation if she would be repremanded by the church or if (as in our church) the sin would fall on the head of the attacker. Please let me know, OK?

Thanks

[quote=leschornmom]What does the Cathlic church say about abortion in the case of rape or incest? I am just curious because the subject came up on another thread…What if the girl is 12 or 13?

I am very anti-choice even in this case but I would like to know if a girl this young is in this situation if she would be repremanded by the church or if (as in our church) the sin would fall on the head of the attacker. Please let me know, OK?

Thanks
[/quote]

Since the Church considers abortion intrinsically wrong, no circumstance or intention can make it right. I don’t know what you mean when you say “repremanded by the church”. She and those who participate in an abortion would be committing a sin. The church has also says that they will also excommunicate themselves. So then what? If they are repentent, they can receive God’s mercy through the sacrament of confession.

[quote=davidv]Since the Church considers abortion intrinsically wrong, no circumstance or intention can make it right. I don’t know what you mean when you say “repremanded by the church”. She and those who participate in an abortion would be committing a sin. The church has also says that they will also excommunicate themselves. So then what? If they are repentent, they can receive God’s mercy through the sacrament of confession.
[/quote]

Dear friend

What David has said is the truth and the whole entire of it

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

[quote=davidv]Since the Church considers abortion intrinsically wrong, no circumstance or intention can make it right. I don’t know what you mean when you say “repremanded by the church”. She and those who participate in an abortion would be committing a sin. The church has also says that they will also excommunicate themselves. So then what? If they are repentent, they can receive God’s mercy through the sacrament of confession.
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So the Catholic church believes that if a pregnant woman commits the sin of abortion they are atomatically excomunticated? If this woman is repentant…and she confesses…does she have a waiting period before she is allowed to take the communion again?

[quote=leschornmom]So the Catholic church believes that if a pregnant woman commits the sin of abortion they are atomatically excomunticated? If this woman is repentant…and she confesses…does she have a waiting period before she is allowed to take the communion again?
[/quote]

Dearest friend

No the minute she goes to confession and is truly sorry for her sins and confesses them to God and receives His absolution via apostolic succession from a Priest …‘what you bind on earth is bound in heaven and what you lose on earth is loosed in heaven’ …then that lady is free of her sin nd in the eyes of God is healed of it, though she may need counselling to come to terms with what has happened in her life as regards her child in heaven. She may also need the love of her friends and of a spiritual director within the church, all of which will love her and help heal this.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Thank you. :slight_smile:

[quote=leschornmom]Thank you. :slight_smile:
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Dearest friend

You are more than welcome, God loves you and Jesus loves you

God Bless you and much love and peace to you always and to those you love, you and your entire family are in my prayers always

Teresa

As I understand it, a 12 or 13 year old would not be excommunicated.

Abortion is still a grave evil, and is mortally sinful for persons of whatever age if committed with full knowledge and complete consent. A Catholic who procures an abortion needs to receive the Sacrament of Reconcilation (also called Confession or Penance). But the penalties, such as excommunication, don’t apply to certain persons.There’s a whole list of exceptions here.

If I’m reading the *Code of Canon Law *correctly, neither “a person who has not yet completed the sixteenth year of age,” nor “a person who without negligence did not know that a penalty was attached to a law or precept” is “bound by a latae sententiae penalty” – the kind of penalty that is attached to abortion. So a 12 or 13 year old would not be excommunicated, nor an adult who “without negligence” did not know that abortion was an excommunicable offense.

a woman or girl who is the victim of rape or incest has suffered from a violent criminal assault. performing another violent assault upon her body and killing an innocent person in the process will not effect her healing in the least, and as testimony from many women in this situation is showing, will actually make her suffering greater.

[quote=leschornmom]What does the Cathlic church say about abortion in the case of rape or incest? I am just curious because the subject came up on another thread…What if the girl is 12 or 13?

I am very anti-choice even in this case but I would like to know if a girl this young is in this situation if she would be repremanded by the church or if (as in our church) the sin would fall on the head of the attacker. Please let me know, OK?

Thanks
[/quote]

The Church does allow a Rape victim to protect themselfs from conception. But once conception has be done it would be concidered as a abortion. Conception can take up to 48 hrs I believe as well.
Rape is one of the very few areas that the Church allows some form of ABCs.

[quote=leschornmom]What does the Cathlic church say about abortion in the case of rape or incest? I am just curious because the subject came up on another thread…What if the girl is 12 or 13?

I am very anti-choice even in this case but I would like to know if a girl this young is in this situation if she would be repremanded by the church or if (as in our church) the sin would fall on the head of the attacker. Please let me know, OK?

Thanks
[/quote]

The Catholic church teaches that abortion is wrong and evil in every case, including rape and incest. It is considered to be murder and a complete disregard for Gods creation of life. Abortion is not a new problem, it has been around for atleast 2000 years and it has been condemned the whole time. There is no circumstance where abortion would be acceptable and it would always be condemned. Some examples of the church fathers speaking against it.

150 AD Didache “The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child” (Didache 2:1)

74 AD The Letter of Barnabas “The way of light, then, is as follows. If any one desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. . . . Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born” (Letter of Barnabas 19).

226 AD Minucius Felix “There are some [pagan] women who, by drinking medical preparations, extinguish the source of the future man in their very bowels and thus commit a parricide before they bring forth. And these things assuredly come down from the teaching of your [false] gods. . . . To us [Christians] it is not lawful either to see or hear of homicide” (Octavius 30).

It is not a sin for the victim of rape. It is only a sin for the perpetrator. In Catholicism, you have to actually go against Gods will yourself in order to commit a sin. A person who is raped is not going against God, only the attacker is. That being said, she would not be repremanded

[quote=leschornmom]So the Catholic church believes that if a pregnant woman commits the sin of abortion they are atomatically excomunticated? If this woman is repentant…and she confesses…does she have a waiting period before she is allowed to take the communion again?
[/quote]

If she has an abortion she is automatically excommunicated by doing the act(latae sententae excommunication). A latae sententae excommunication can only be lifted by the bishop normally, but abortion is now an exception. It used to be that you had to talk to the bishop but now any preist can absolve someone.

If you do not know the consequences or that there is a penalty attached to the sin then you are not excommunicated. You can not be excommunicated if you do not understand what you did.

Here are some links to some questions dealing with this from the Ask an Apologist forum.
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=20178
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=7408

[quote=jimmy]The Catholic church teaches that abortion is wrong and evil in every case, including rape and incest. It is considered to be murder and a complete disregard for Gods creation of life. Abortion is not a new problem, it has been around for atleast 2000 years
[/quote]

Allot longer then that, their is egyptian writing that have abortive techniques. Also it is not something new the America as well, they are showing that allot of previos thought “suicides” were woman overdosing on morphine and other drugs not kill themselves but to kill their child.

It is not a sin for the victim of rape. It is only a sin for the perpetrator. In Catholicism, you have to actually go against Gods will yourself in order to commit a sin. A person who is raped is not going against God, only the attacker is. That being said, she would not be repremanded

I think leschornmom was talking about the rape victim would be repremanded if she had a abortion.

[quote=Jermosh]I think leschornmom was talking about the rape victim would be repremanded if she had a abortion.
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Ah, you are probably right. I misread it. Then, yes she would be repremanded. She would be latae sententae excommunication unless she did not know the consequences. Abortion is always intrinsicly evil no matter what.

[quote=leschornmom]What does the Cathlic church say about abortion in the case of rape or incest? I am just curious because the subject came up on another thread…What if the girl is 12 or 13?

I am very anti-choice even in this case but I would like to know if a girl this young is in this situation if she would be repremanded by the church or if (as in our church) the sin would fall on the head of the attacker. Please let me know, OK?

Thanks
[/quote]

Hi Leschornmom, The sin of rape would, of course fall on the rapist, but if the girl received an abortion, that would be her sin. It’s certainly not the baby’s fault that it was conceived. Two wrongs…

[quote=Jermosh]The Church does allow a Rape victim to protect themselfs from conception. But once conception has be done it would be concidered as a abortion. Conception can take up to 48 hrs I believe as well.
Rape is one of the very few areas that the Church allows some form of ABCs.
[/quote]

Any way you cut it, the Church does NOT “allow a rape victim to protect themselves from conception.”

Cut #1 = birth control methods such as taking a birth control pill, having your tubes tied, or any other artificial means of “birth control” is not in God’s plan.

However, the Church does “allow” Natural Family Planning, which is simply not having intercourse during the woman’s fertile “time of the month.”

Cut#2 = abortion is more and more being used as a method of birth control. In America, since Roe v. Wade passed, one out of every four pregnancies ends in artificial abortion. The Church teaches that abortion is an intrinsic evil for which people involved in it (other than the baby, of course, who had no control at all over the method of their death) are with repentance able to be forgiven of it.

Conception of a new person is immediate the very nanosecond that the sperm (with the man’s DNA) and the egg (with the woman’s DNA) meet.

This is because the DNA of the cell is unique to that new “cell” of new life.

That’s science. Pure and simple.

======

**Please visit this site to learn about abortion aftermath and where to find help.

hopeafterabortion.com/

There is a section of this site that is in Espanol (Spanish) also:

hopeafterabortion.com/hope.cfm?sel=H59B**

[quote=Veronica Anne]Any way you cut it, the Church does NOT “allow a rape victim to protect themselves from conception.”
[/quote]

I think Jermosh is referring to this:

“Compassionate and understanding care should be given to a person who is the victim of sexual assault. Health care providers should cooperate with law enforcement officials and offer the person psychological and spiritual support as well as accurate medical information. A female who has been raped should be able to defend herself against a potential conception from the sexual assault. If, after appropriate testing, there is no evidence that conception has occurred already, she may be treated with medications that would prevent ovulation, sperm capacitation, or fertilization. It is not permissible, however, to initiate or to recommend treatments that have as their purpose or direct effect the removal, destruction, or interference with the implantation of a fertilized ovum.”

Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services”, Fourth Edition, #36, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

I understand that if the girl was 12 and she was raped or a victim of incest, the right thing to do is carry the child to term…however…

what if the parents force the child to have an abortion, be it to cover their own crimes (incest) or out of some sort of shame? Will the child be sinning then?

[quote=Veronica Anne]Any way you cut it, the Church does NOT “allow a rape victim to protect themselves from conception.”
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Actually they do allow for it. Again I am talking about before conception, that means the sperm has not implanted in the egg yet.

Cut #1 = birth control methods such as taking a birth control pill, having your tubes tied, or any other artificial means of “birth control” is not in God’s plan.

Neither is rape, God never intended for a woman to be raped and have a child from it. But if the child is conceived then it cannot be undone of course.

However, the Church does “allow” Natural Family Planning, which is simply not having intercourse during the woman’s fertile “time of the month.”

Agian we are talking about Rape here, even if it is in a mariage I highly doupt they will be doing something such as NFP.

Cut#2 = abortion is more and more being used as a method of birth control. In America, since Roe v. Wade passed, one out of every four pregnancies ends in artificial abortion. The Church teaches that abortion is an intrinsic evil for which people involved in it (other than the baby, of course, who had no control at all over the method of their death) are with repentance able to be forgiven of it.

Again Life only starts at conception, it is not abortion to protect oneself from a forced rape and conception.

Conception of a new person is immediate the very nanosecond that the sperm (with the man’s DNA) and the egg (with the woman’s DNA) meet.

Yes after this point it would be abortion and mortally wrong if they knew they were pregnant, I agree.

[quote=sarcophagus]I understand that if the girl was 12 and she was raped or a victim of incest, the right thing to do is carry the child to term…however…

what if the parents force the child to have an abortion, be it to cover their own crimes (incest) or out of some sort of shame? Will the child be sinning then?
[/quote]

No it would still be a sin though, but her culpibility is removed. Remember the formula for a Mortal sin is Serios Sin+Knowledge of it Seriosness+doing it of free will. In this case she would not be doing it of free will even though she knew it was wrong.

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