What is Catholic position on what happens to soul of unbaptized infant who dies?


#25

…except that it wasn’t “the constant tradition”. Funny how you keep missing that point. :wink:


#26

Regardless of whether the Church Fathers were unanimous in their teaching, the following is binding doctrine:

"The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only…immediately descend into Hell, yet to be punished with different punishments”. —Second Council of Lyons, 1274

“…the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains”. —Council of Florence, Laetentur caeli, 1439

“The Roman Church teaches…that the souls of those who depart in mortal sin or with only original sin descend immediately to hell, nevertheless to be punished with different punishments and in disparate locations…” —John XXII, Nequaquam sine dolore, 1321

Those who have eyes ought to see. The documents say VERY clearly that unbaptized infants, who have only original sin, do not go to heaven, and neither do they suffer the same punishments as those who die in mortal sin.


#27

And that’s your opinion. The opinion of the ITC differs. So, if you want to talk about who’s the more reliable source for opinions on what’s binding doctrine and what’s not… I’ll go with the Vatican. :wink:


#28

Please explain to me why those previous magisterial documents haven’t been revoked or declared null.


#30

It is a de fide teaching of the Church that those who die in original sin do not go to Heaven:
“Souls who depart this life in the state of original sin are excluded from the Beatific Vision of God. (De fide.)” -Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma

However, the Church does not definitively teach that every unbaptized infant that dies is excluded from Heaven and goes to Limbo. If the child remains in the state of original sin at death then yes, the Church infallibly teaches they don’t go to heaven. But it is possible that God somehow grants the child sanctifying grace so they depart this life in the state of grace rather than a state of original sin. There is very little to support this idea and plenty of saints & popes have taught the opposite, but it is something Catholics are allowed to believe.


#32

…and yours, too. I’ll take those papal documents over your opinion any day. If you—or anyone else—would like to discuss this topic over PM, feel free to do so.


#34

Very funny; if you’d like to present an argument, try actually citing parts of what I wrote and back your refutations up with solid evidence. Shouting, “It has NEVER been doctrine!” is not a theological argument.


#35

Everyone here seems to disagree with you. There are no Church documents stating Limbo for Infants was doctrine. It is simply your opinion.


#36

For the umpteenth time…

"The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only…immediately descend into Hell, yet to be punished with different punishments”. —Second Council of Lyons, 1274

“…the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains”. —Council of Florence, Laetentur caeli , 1439

“The Roman Church teaches…that the souls of those who depart in mortal sin or with only original sin descend immediately to hell, nevertheless to be punished with different punishments and in disparate locations…” —John XXII, Nequaquam sine dolore, 1321

These documents literally could not be more clear; those who die in original sin only (including unbaptized infants) do NOT got to heaven. Either people here cannot read and comprehend very clear statements, or are willfully remaining closed against Church teachings which do not sound pleasing to their ears.


#38

For those who wish to know what the Church actually teaches:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

“it is clear that the traditional teaching on this topic has concentrated on the theory of limbo , understood as a state which includes the souls of infants who die subject to original sin and without baptism, and who, therefore, neither merit the beatific vision, nor yet are subjected to any punishment, because they are not guilty of any personal sin. This theory, elaborated by theologians beginning in the Middle Ages, never entered into the dogmatic definitions of the Magisterium…”


#39

Actually it is you who dissents from Church teaching which is CCC 1261.

See also CCC 1257:

THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM

The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, _but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.


#41

The CCC per se is neither infallible nor non-infallible.

It contains the teachings of the Church, both infallible and non-infallible and Catholics are BOUND by all the teachings contained therein.
Are you saying you reject some teachings in the CCC?


#42

Are you saying you reject the teachings of an ECUMENICAL COUNCIL? A Council with just as much authority as Vatican II does?


#43

The CCC is authoritative when it comes to Church teachings and it contains footnotes to relevant Church documents, be it Sacred Scripture or other Church documents that underpin doctrine.


#45

I repeat that the CCC is AUTHORITATIVE when it comes to Church teachings and all Catholics including YOU and I are BOUND by what is contained therein. This is why we don’t need to go scraping through individual documents to know what the Church teaches.

Also I repeat what I quoted above and I notice you have no comment:

CCC THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

What is your view on the part I highlighted (which is a Church teaching).


#46

This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.


#47

This topic was automatically opened after 16 hours.


#48

There is no official Catholic position on this.
A person may hope an unbaptized child is in heaven, considering the love and mercy of God. But still–the Church has not said.


#49

It is rather discouraging that there is no definitive teaching on this matter. After all the number spontaneous abortions / miscarriages is much larger than the number of newborns. For those who are affected by such events it is not something that they can just shrug off. And this is just one of the very important questions for which “the church has no definitive answer”…


#50

That would only be the case if it was part of the extraordinary magisterial teaching. It wasn’t.
But Limbo was, at times, part of the ordinary magisterial teaching of the Church, as the Vatican made clear in the letter on the subject a few years back:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html


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