What is "educational neglect" and do you think it's wrong


#1

On another thread the OP described a situation where she wasn't sure of all the facts. However many people seemed to think that not learning to read and write was a valid parental option.

Please use the Poll to determine your answers and say why.

This is based on a 15 yo student with parents who say that they refuse to educate their child further. (either because they dont believe it's necessary or because they think that having an learning disability means that a child can't learn)


#2

if reported all the children I know who meet poll descriptions I would be reporting half my CCD enrollment. Show me where public schools do any better, if you are measuring the performance of all their students.

every year we have some home-schoolers for Confirmation and we have to determine what grade they are in school. So my surprise in Texas, or at least in the districts I deal with, there is no uniform standard, they don't even have to take the TAKS assessment of skills tests. So a 13 yr old can be in any grade from 7-12, based on the parent or tutor's say-so.


#3

I agree with Puzzleannie - those descriptions also describe many kids who go to “away” school (public, private, charter, whatever).
So who do you report the “away” schools to?


#4

isn't this kind of a "how often do you beat your wife" question? :rolleyes:


#5

I don't understand why you state parent, when most if not all public/private and catholic schools do this exact neglect. When do we get to report these teachers for such neglect?


#6

It depends entirely on the 15 year old, but as a parent, if my child is not at his or her academic grade level, I'd want to know why. If an eleven year old isn't reading at the fifth grade level, and the parent doesn't care, that's a red flag to me. The truth is, there are eleven year olds who are slacking if they're not doing work well beyond their grade level, and eleven year olds that nobody is going to be able to have at grade level within a year. It depends on the child.

I know a young man, though, who struggled through reading all the way through grade school, in spite of his obvious intelligence, only to find at the age of 14 that he had a problem with the muscles of his eyes! All those years of academic struggle, because his problem hadn't been correctly diagnosed.

It is necessary, too, to take the parent's own educational attainment into account. Have the parents been well able to provide for their family with less than a high school educations? I don't think that is a reason to believe their children will be so fortunate, but surely it is a reason for understanding why they could care very much about their children and yet not be at all alarmed about their lack of academic accomplishment. Still, I find it hard to believe there is a parent out there who does not know that an adult needs to be able to read and do math like one, in order to read contracts and manage personal finances and the like, if nothing else.

Likewise, there are parents who are so trusting of educational "authority" that one opinion that puts a low expectation on their child's chances of academic success is all they need to give up on the child. As much as I would argue they not give in so easily, I really don't blame them for that.

These are all reasons to have a conversation with the parent, though. The leap to concluding that there is neglect is something else again....and, actually depends on the laws of the state. If the citizens of the state have defined no legal responsibility on the parent beyond what the parent is doing, "reporting" the parents is only going to cause strife and anguish. As much as it might pain a person to come to that conclusion, there is no point to it.


#7

[quote="st_lucy, post:5, topic:199798"]
I don't understand why you state parent, when most if not all public/private and catholic schools do this exact neglect. When do we get to report these teachers for such neglect?

[/quote]

First of all, a school has to prove they provide the minimum in order to be accreditted. In most states, it is up to the parent to advocate for a child being denied adequate education by an accredited school. If the teachers are not teaching the material required to make the state benchmarks, the parent has standing to bring that issue to court. Again, it depends on what the states have defined as their own responsibility, or as the responsibility of accredited schools. And it is within the power of the state to define the standards differently for homeschoolers than for accredited schools. It depends on the decisions of the lawmakers in each state.


#8

[quote="purplesunshine, post:1, topic:199798"]
On another thread the OP described a situation where she wasn't sure of all the facts. However many people seemed to think that not learning to read and write was a valid parental option...

[/quote]

:rolleyes: Your reading comrehension skills might need improvement. Either yours or mine.

"Many people"? Did we read the same thread? I read "many people" suggest that the op talk to the neighbor. I saw "some people" suggest she share information about dyslexia and learning disabilities. I understood "some people" pointed out that "many people" who attended public schools fail to achieve literacy levels above third grade. I saw "some people" suggest the op should report the neighbor to the authorities, and "many people" responded with concerned about neighbors reporting homeschoolers to authorities for "educational neglect"--especially neighnors who don't have all the facts.

How very sad! To be able to read, yet not be able to understand what one reads....


#9

[quote="leonie, post:4, topic:199798"]
isn't this kind of a "how often do you beat your wife" question? :rolleyes:

[/quote]

hahaha. Early and often? Whenever she's not beating me? As soon as I get one?

After a kid learns the 3 R's, our schools don't do a great job. I got more out of reading random books in the library while waiting in between college classes than I did in my last three years of high school.

And it's not the teachers fault.

As for this poll, I don't think I'd turn a kid or his folks in.


#10

You should have made it a multiple choice poll. I would have selected all the options.

It is completely outrageous for any 15 year old to read at the 3rd or 5th grade level, and it constitutes huge neglect on the part of the parents.

How hard can it be to teach a child to read?! My parents taught me to read when I was 3 years old. I was reading thick books before I even went to first grade. And both my parents worked, and they didn't spend a whole lot of time teaching me to read. There is absolutely no reason why a 15 year old should be essentially denied access to a huge part of what it means to be human. We're an information based society, someone who can't read can't even fully participate.

If there is a learning disability, the parents should be seeking professional treatment for the child and doing everything they can to enable her to live a normal life.

It is very, very horrible for the 15 year old to be raised in this way. It really limits the 15 year old's options, and maybe reporting to the authorities would motivate the parents to do their duty by the child. It would be very unlikely that the authorities would take the kids away, but their involvement might motivate the parents to be parents.


#11

[quote="st_lucy, post:5, topic:199798"]
I don't understand why you state parent, when most if not all public/private and catholic schools do this exact neglect. When do we get to report these teachers for such neglect?

[/quote]

The final responsibility lies with the parent. Teachers who are incapable of teaching willing students to read should lose their jobs. Parents who are incapable of parenting should lose theirs too. It's not fair to the children.


#12

[quote="gardenswithkids, post:8, topic:199798"]
:rolleyes: Your reading comrehension skills might need improvement. Either yours or mine.

"Many people"? Did we read the same thread? I read "many people" suggest that the op talk to the neighbor. I saw "some people" suggest she share information about dyslexia and learning disabilities. I understood "some people" pointed out that "many people" who attended public schools fail to achieve literacy levels above third grade. I saw "some people" suggest the op should report the neighbor to the authorities, and "many people" responded with concerned about neighbors reporting homeschoolers to authorities for "educational neglect"--especially neighnors who don't have all the facts.

How very sad! To be able to read, yet not be able to understand what one reads....

[/quote]


#13

Why you don’t look up the definition of many? Should I have gone through and counted for you? Yes, I saw the posts about learning disabilities…I even commented on them. When it comes to what defines the acceptable level of education I did not say “all” or even “most”. But there was enough for me to feel disconcerted that it wasn’t just one or two nutballs who think that education is a parent’s total choice.

We’re not talking about nosy neighbors who think they know, but an informed person…neighbor, librarian, priest, etc. Who has spoken to the child and parents and knows they are not educating.

When does it become a matter for concern? We can see starved children, we can see bruised children or dirty children. So when does educational neglect come into play?


#14

I think the definition of illiterate is not being able to read at or above an 8th grade level. I think anything less than that is educational neglect unless there is a learning difference of some sort.


#15

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