What is the Difference Between Southern Baptist and Independant Evangelical Baptis

I ask because we are having a mini Baptist Convention tonight at my inlaws place … and their old minister who is SB is coming. They are the IEB.

Is there much of a difference?

Unfortunately, I can not attend :thumbsup:, I am going to the gym and then grocery shopping!!! :eek: :eek:

There is a lengthy reference list of Baptist sub-denominations here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baptist_sub-denominations

It is also possible your “independent evangelical” Baptist friends are not affiliated with any of the existing sub-denominations, but are starting their own.

[quote=urquhart]There is a lengthy reference list of Baptist sub-denominations here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baptist_sub-denominations

It is also possible your “independent evangelical” Baptist friends are not affiliated with any of the existing sub-denominations, but are starting their own.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info. If anyone out there has a personal experience, would be helpful.

Have a great weekend. :thumbsup:

Being an ex Baptist I can tell you in a nutshell. Southern Baptists belong to a huge organizational structure. While evangelical Baptists are self governing. Each local evangelical church governs it’s own church, it’s own missions and own doctrinal position. That is the basic difference. Both the American Baptists and Southern Baptists are organizational and all local churches must agree in missions and doctrinal stance of this one particular organization.

There were six survivors of a shipwreck who managed to crawl ashore on a desert island. There were two Jews, two Catholics, and two Baptists.

Within a year, the Jews had built Temple Beth Israel. The Catholics built the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. The Baptists built

The First Baptist Church
The American Baptist Church
The Reformed Baptist Church
The Bible Baptist Church
The Missionary Baptist Church

You forgot the Free Will Baptists and the Duck Water Baptists. :slight_smile:

[quote=piety101]Being an ex Baptist I can tell you in a nutshell. Southern Baptists belong to a huge organizational structure. While evangelical Baptists are self governing. Each local evangelical church governs it’s own church, it’s own missions and own doctrinal position. That is the basic difference. Both the American Baptists and Southern Baptists are organizational and all local churches must agree in missions and doctrinal stance of this one particular organization.
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PIETY101 - what opened your eyes?

[quote=vern humphrey]There were six survivors of a shipwreck who managed to crawl ashore on a desert island. There were two Jews, two Catholics, and two Baptists.

Within a year, the Jews had built Temple Beth Israel. The Catholics built the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. The Baptists built

The First Baptist Church
The American Baptist Church
The Reformed Baptist Church
The Bible Baptist Church
The Missionary Baptist Church
[/quote]

Good one! Reminds me of the ol’ ‘Two Baptists on a bridge’ joke…

[quote=Isidore_AK]Good one! Reminds me of the ol’ ‘Two Baptists on a bridge’ joke…
[/quote]

What one is that? Please share.

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?” He said, “Baptist!” I said,“Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?” He said, “Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?” He said,“Reformed Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!” I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off.

– Emo Phillips

Southern Baptist belong to the southern baptist convention. ALthough each church has autonomy, they still have some sort of agreement with one another. Independent Baptist Churches are completly independent and do not believe in any sort of councils. Each church forms its own autonomous unit.

I attended an Independent Baptist Church for three years. We were encouraged-not all women did-to wear dresses, never drink alcohol, never listen to even Christian rock, shun the Passion of Christ, attend church three times a week and attend all church functions and basically become a radical fundamentalist. It drove me nuts.

My new neighbors are Independent Baptist. They wear shorts to church, watch an occasional horror movie, listen to modern Christian music, love the Passion of Christ and will occasionally drink an alcoholic beverage.

The pastor of our old church firmly believed that only his way of interpreting the bible was correct. He looked down on SOuthern Baptists for being to liberal!! Although the people were very nice, I often felt that my particular Independent Baptist church bordered on a cult. There was a lot of control and running to the pastor to tattle on other church members. I was even ganged up on by a group of ladies and the pastor because I didn’t attend Wednesday Night prayer service. I was told that I wasn’t spiritual enough.

I don’t get the impression that my neighbor’s church is anything like my old one. They seem more laid back, and less stressed out over what the other church members think. I also don’t get the impression that they are trying to convert me, although I have talked about religion with them.

My whole experience has made me very greatful for Catholisim.:smiley:

[quote=Matt16_18]I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?” He said, “Baptist!” I said,“Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?” He said, “Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?” He said,“Reformed Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!” I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off.

– Emo Phillips
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:rotfl: Very funny.

[quote=MGEISING]Thanks for the info. If anyone out there has a personal experience, would be helpful.

Have a great weekend. :thumbsup:
[/quote]

The biggest difference is funding. Each SBC and each Independant Baptist Church is a separate entity. There is no creed to subscribe to, no set authority structure to follow and no control from one entity to another.

The Independant Baptist fund missionary work with each church deciding how much to send where. They may have a specific missionary whose salary they pay or they may send money to a sister church across the world.

SBC churches usually designate (through voting) how much money to send into other entities, the largest being the Southern Baptist Convention. There are thousands of SBC churches contributing 5, 10, 15 % or more of collections into this one organization. The SBC in turn funds, foreign missionarie, home missionaries and universites. Additional an SBC will fund a State Convention that does similar co-op funding within a single state. Also an area association will be funded by each church, covering a few counties, to fund local projects that are best shared by more than one church.

SBC member churches, because they fund the SBC, are allowed to send delegates to elect leaders of the SBC. These are the large Conventions that make the news.

[quote=pnewton]The biggest difference is funding. Each SBC and each Independant Baptist Church is a separate entity. There is no creed to subscribe to, no set authority structure to follow and no control from one entity to another.

The Independant Baptist fund missionary work with each church deciding how much to send where. They may have a specific missionary whose salary they pay or they may send money to a sister church across the world.

[/quote]

With the talk of how Independent Baptists fund missionary work, the confusion should not be made with Missionary Baptist churches, which are still almost exclusively independent but not the same as Independent Baptists. Just FYI.

RyanL

It was quite by accident really. I purchased this Logos Home bible study software. Logos software pumps out Protestant software and is the leader in the market. Anyway, they offered a sale on the early church fathers. I was curious, because I was never told about these guys and knowing these writers lived back in the early centuries, I thought they would strengthen my Baptist faith even more. So I ordered an add on disk.

                                     Well, that was the turning point in my life. When I read what these fathers had to say, it was the complete OPPOSITE of what I was taught. Especially on Christian baptism and the blessed Eucharist. The evidence was overwhelming. The more I studied their witness, the less I remained a die hard Baptist. The rest of the story is history. It's funny though. If I would never have purchased the early fathers software, I still would be a Baptist today.

[quote=RyanL]With the talk of how Independent Baptists fund missionary work, the confusion should not be made with Missionary Baptist churches, which are still almost exclusively independent but not the same as Independent Baptists. Just FYI.

RyanL
[/quote]

Yes. There are also other “conventions.” National Baptist come to mind.

[quote=MGEISING]I ask because we are having a mini Baptist Convention tonight at my inlaws place … and their old minister who is SB is coming. They are the IEB.

Is there much of a difference?

Unfortunately, I can not attend :thumbsup:, I am going to the gym and then grocery shopping!!! :eek: :eek:
[/quote]

Independent Baptists are generally far more fundamentalist than the Southern Baptists. Frequently they use only the KJV and they are almost always anti-Catholic. (The SBC these days is less anti-Catholic than you might think–some of their representatives have said some really positive things about B16, and the archivist for one of their major seminaries told me he planned to send the new Pope a letter of congratulation on behalf of the seminary.)

The IEB, though, may not be your standard Independent Baptists. Because “Evangelical” has often been used in the past fifty years by people (like myself) wanting to distinguish themselves from fundamentalists, hard-line fundamentalists are less likely to use it in an official title like that. I did a google search and found the term used by several Baptist groups in Europe, from Spain to Ukraine. That’s all I have to offer.

Edwin

[quote=Contarini]Independent Baptists are generally far more fundamentalist than the Southern Baptists. Frequently they use only the KJV and they are almost always anti-Catholic.
[/quote]

Well - two of the two IFB churchs I have attending - did indeed say untruthful things about Catholics.

I find it amazing that a person who calls himself Pastor, would speak badly about any other religion, but more importantly, that they would teach false teaching of the religious group that was the topic. I hate to say they are liers, because for some reason - they believe it. Catholic’s at the above mention churches are goig to hell. :eek:

I do not feel comfortable with these members, and it is difficult, becuase they are my inlaws. And what my inlaws believe at IFB - is different from my sister inlaw who is also IFB. :confused:

Hi Piety,

I used to be Catholic for 35 years. I was a Eucharistic Minister. Its funny that you say you stopped being a Baptist because of the early church fathers. Thats the same reason I left the RCC and became Baptist

I realized that the RC confessional didnt exist in the first two centuries of Christianity. It popped up in its rudamentary elements at the end of the 2nd century, and the beginning of the 3rd century. The problem was with a group of people known as the lapsed. In the first half of the second century a false theology entered the church. The idea was that Christ only died for the sins that are forgiven in baptism. After baptism you have to pay for your own sins. So if you committed a grave sin you were considered lapsed from the faith and excommunicated permanently. Never to be allowed back in again. But some felt that these lapsed should be given a 2nd chance. So the idea came about that if they confessed before the entire congregation, did penance for a really long time, and then returned, the bishop could pray to God to forgive them and give them a 2nd chance. Thats where it began. Jesus did not institute the sacrament of reconciliation by confessing to a priest and getting absolution from him. In fact back then the bishop didnt even grant absolution, he just prayed for you. And this was only allowed once in a life time. If you messed up again that was the end of it. You were never readmitted. Even the RCC finds this kind of theology wrong. In the modern day the sacrament has evolved to the point that you can do the penance after the absolution, plus the priest actually says that he absolves you. And you can get this supposed sacrament over and over again. Not just once. Also in the Middle Ages the RCC realized that Christ died for all sins. Both those committed before and after baptism

Why did this theology enter the church? A misunderstanding of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. A misunderstanding of Hebrews 6 and 10. These combined to form the idea that a grave sin would end your salvation permanently with no forgiveness left to you, if committed after baptism. So what kind of sin would cause this? The 3 worst sins in Judaism were Murder, Apostasy, and Adultery. Those sins got you kicked out permanently if committed after baptism. I wonder how King David ever got forgiven, since he committed both adultery and murder. And Peter denied Christ. And Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery. And Paul allowed the man who sinned with his mother in law in the Corinthian church the opportunity to repent. Also the woman called Jezebel in the book of Revelation was given a chance to repent as well. So obviously this was a false teaching. Even the RCC today would call it a false teaching. Yet it was hailed by many early church fathers. I suspect the book called the Shepherd of Hermas, which teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation, and also teaches that there is a point at which the Elect can no longer be forgiven. This book was so popular back then that many people wanted to include it in the New Testament

Also in the early church fathers there are plenty of quotes that show that transubstantiation was not believed in. There may have been a type of consubstantiation in the 3rd century that some people held to. But no real transubstantiation. And originally it was a symbol. Even one of the Ante-Nicene fathers calls it a symbol. Another father calls it a spiritual sacrifice. But if its transubstantiation wouldnt that mean that its a carnal sacrifice?

And of course, no pope. Callistus and other bishops of Rome were accused of heresy by Hippolytus (another Ante-Nicene father). And there was even an early Roman pope who signed a document affirming Arianism. Ignatius said that the Church in Rome is the head church in that region of Italy, but not of the whole world. And he wasnt speaking of the Roman bishop, but of the church itself as being a head church in that area. Irenaeus said that the Bishop of Rome is the successor of Peter and Paul, not just Peter. And for this reason he tried to prove the Gnostics wrong. He coined the term Apostolic Succession, to show a succession of theology over 150 years, but not a succession of power. This was part of his fight against Gnosticism. But that doesnt make the Bishop of Rome the head bishop of the world. It just means that his theology was considered correct at that time

The first time that any bishop of Rome made any allusions to power was in 250 AD, when bishop Steven claimed the authority to establish theology concerning baptism. When he did that Cyprian of North Africa claimed that he was going overboard because even Peter never made such claims. In other words, Bishop Steven was basically laughed at

All bishops were thought to be equal. Thats why they had councils in the early church, and didnt just give the pope infallible powers to make declarations. In fact in the second century the terms bishop and presbyter are often used interchangably. Thats because they were really the same office. A bishop was a head presbyter. Usually presbyters met in a council of equals, and the head of that council, the first among equals, was called the overseer (bishop). It was very democratic

The 1st time that any power shows up in Rome is in 366, with Damasus. Who made edicts to try to give him more power, even though he was ignored by many churches and bishops. Its funny that he came to power by means of a 3 day massacre when his hoodlums fought it out in the streets of Rome with his opponent’s hoodlums. Damasus won the fight, after 137 people had been murdered. But that was 53 years after Constantine legalized the Church and threw power and money at it

And how about the sacraments. The Ante-Nicene fathers only had to 2 sacraments, not 7

I found plenty in the early church fathers to prove that Roman Catholicism had slowly evolved away from the teachings of the New Testament and the first century church

Could you please tell me what did you buy??? I am desperate to show my husband the truth of the Catholic Faith I can not find a way after all prayer I made fastening and all to make him come back to Rome

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