What is the Third Heaven?


#1

"I know a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not,
or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third Heaven,"
2 Corinthians 12:2

What is the Third Heaven? How many are there?

:heaven:


#2

[quote="The_Serpent, post:1, topic:324782"]
"I know a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not,
or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third Heaven,"
2 Corinthians 12:2

What is the Third Heaven? How many are there?

:heaven:

[/quote]

There are three heavens.

  1. Atmosphere where birds fly.
  2. Space the final frontier (though that is not entirely correct, it is is second to last final frontier). It is the space between the firmaments. At the outer extent of the universe is the outer firmament, a body of water.
  3. Outside the universe. Where God is.

I have seen people show a picture of the stars at night and say, is this where you want to be? Heaven? That is not the heaven of reward, that is only the second heaven.


#3

:blush:

;):smiley:

I do not know where third heaven is, but I do not think it is that you say first heaven is atmosphere where birds fly, and that second- .

Had atmosphere where birds fly be first heaven, many people would have gone to heaven by air plane.


#4

[quote="roselily, post:3, topic:324782"]
:blush:

;):D

I do not know where third heaven is, but I do not think it is that you say first heaven is atmosphere where birds fly, and that second- .

Had atmosphere where birds fly be first heaven, many people would have gone to heaven by air plane.

[/quote]

It is an historical Jewish understanding.


#5

[quote="Darryl_B, post:4, topic:324782"]
It is an historical Jewish understanding.

[/quote]

:)
I read it; I knew that Bible one book could not written down all the things. Now I could not know where third heaven and other heavens is.

John 21:24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true. 25But there are also many other things that Jesus did; if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

and I was just reading about Christianity and Paganism,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Paganism


#6

The Jewish commentaries note that there are seven words for heaven in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). So, they reason, this must mean something, so they have the idea that there are seven levels. The Almighty, blessed be the Name, resides in the seventh or highest level.

These levels are thought to be so vast, that each is equivalent to a journey of five hundred years.

I used Strong's concordance to check this out, looking up how many words are translated as heaven, and there seem to be such seven words used in Hebrew, that don't seem to convey any other inherent rationale for usage.As we know, there was no such thing as a dictionary, when the scriptures were written. So, words yield their meaning only slowly, if at all.


#7

[quote="sirach2v4, post:6, topic:324782"]
The Jewish commentaries note that there are seven words for heaven in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). So, they reason, this must mean something, so they have the idea that there are seven levels. The Almighty, blessed be the Name, resides in the seventh or highest level.

These levels are thought to be so vast, that each is equivalent to a journey of five hundred years.

I used Strong's concordance to check this out, looking up how many words are translated as heaven, and there seem to be such seven words used in Hebrew, that don't seem to convey any other inherent rationale for usage.As we know, there was no such thing as a dictionary, when the scriptures were written. So, words yield their meaning only slowly, if at all.

[/quote]

I hope that isnt Jewish Kabbalist. They speculated far more things than the traditional Jew ever derived from the Bible.


#8

According to Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, who
died while on the operating table during surgery and had a neardeath experience. After angels showed him the second and third heavens. propheticvoice.co.uk/download/pdf%20books/Placebo_book.pdf
Its a good read. If you read it, it will underscore the demonic warfare that we are in, and the great mercy God has for us. Without His love we are lost!

The third heaven is what we catholics understand to be the throne room of God the Father.


#9

[quote="roselily, post:5, topic:324782"]
:)
I read it; I knew that Bible one book could not written down all the things. Now I could not know where third heaven and other heavens is.

John 21:24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true. 25But there are also many other things that Jesus did; if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

and I was just reading about Christianity and Paganism,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Paganism

[/quote]

I would strongly urge you not to take Wikipedia as a source of information. Apparently the person who originally wrote a Catholic page was a young student who borrowed much from the book Catholic for Dummies but whom knew nothing about the subject.


#10

[quote="Darryl_B, post:2, topic:324782"]
There are three heavens.

  1. Atmosphere where birds fly.
  2. Space the final frontier (though that is not entirely correct, it is is second to last final frontier). It is the space between the firmaments. At the outer extent of the universe is the outer firmament, a body of water.
  3. Outside the universe. Where God is..

[/quote]

God is outside the Universe? Whatever happened to the Incarnation?


#11

Mystics suggest that the state of heaven, or the experience of the Beatific Vision, is divided in seven layers according to the amount of grace merited by the soul. St. Therese of Lisieux wonderfully explains with the utter simplicity of those who are like little children but the first in the Kingdom, that everyone is like a glass full of water to the top. but some by their life and merits have become bigger glasses, others have remained smaller. But all are filled to the top, so that nobody may be unhappy. The division in layers of grace is shown to be existing in the angelic hosts as well (who, as the Church teaches, underwent their own moral testing at the beginning) and evidence for that division is present in certain passages of Scripture where some are closer to the glory of God, many others farther. Closer and farther, as well as layers, are no more of a figure of speech than the glasses of the Little Flower, for in truth eternity and the Beatific Vision cannot be understood in terms of size or distance. However, it is fairly possible that St. Paul was given a vision of one part of the beatific vision - it has happened to other saints as well - or that - as others mention - he was just using a way of speech that would make what he meant clear to his brothers.

According to some commentaries:

The Jews talk of seven heavens:

  1. The Velum, or curtain, וילון - "Which in the morning is folded up, and in the evening stretched out." Isaiah 40:22 : He stretcheth out the heavens as a Curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

  2. The firmament, or Expanse, רקיע - "In which the sun, moon, stars, and constellations are fixed." Genesis 1:17 : And God placed them in the Firmament of heaven.

  3. The Clouds, or Ether, שקים - "Where the mill-stones are which grind the manna for the righteous." Psalm 78:23, etc.: Though he had commended the Clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven, and had rained down manna, etc.

  4. The Habitation, זבול - "Where Jerusalem, and the temple, and the altar, were constructed and where Michael the great prince stands and offers sacrifices." 1 Kings 8:13 : I have surely built thee a House To Dwell In, a settled place for thee to abide in for ever. "But where is heaven so called?" Answer: In Isaiah 63:15 : Look down from Heaven, and behold from the Habitation, מזבול, of thy holiness.

  5. The Dwelling-Place, מעון - "Where the troops of angels sing throughout the night, but are silent in the day time, because of the glory of the Israelites." Psalm 42:8 : The Lord will command his loving-kindness in the day time, and in the night his song shall be with me. "But how is it proved that this means heaven? "Answer: From Deuteronomy 26:15. Look down from thy holy habitation, ממעון, the Dwelling-Place of thy holiness; and from heaven, השמים, and bless thy people Israel.

  6. The Fixed Residence, מבון - "Where are the treasures of snow and hail, the repository of noxious dews, of drops, and whirlwinds; the grotto of exhalations," etc. "But where are the heavens thus denominated?" Answer: In 1 Kings 8:39, 1 Kings 8:49, etc.: Then hear thou in Heaven thy Dwelling - Place, מכון שבת, thy Fixed Residence.

  7. The Araboth, ערבות - "Where are justice, judgment, mercy, the treasures of life; peace and blessedness; the souls of the righteous, the souls and spirits which are reserved for the bodies yet to be formed, and the dew by which God is to vivify the dead." Psalm 89:14, Isaiah 59:17; Psalm 36:9, Judges 6:24; Psalm 24:4; 1 Samuel 25:29; Isaiah 57:20 : All of which are termed Araboth, Psalm 68:4. Extol him who rideth on the heavens, בערבות ba Araboth, by his name Jah.

But the Bible speaks of but three heavens, and among the Jews in the apostolic ages also the heavens were divided into three:

(1) The aerial, including the clouds and the atmosphere, the heavens above us, until we come to the stars.

(2) the starry heavens, the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars appear to be situated.

(3) the heavens beyond the stars. That heaven was supposed to be the residence of God, of angels, and of holy spirits. It was this upper heaven, the dwelling-place of God, where Christ was seated at the right hand of the Father, and where the spirits of the just were assembled.


#12

[quote="roselily, post:3, topic:324782"]
:blush:

;):D

I do not know where third heaven is, but I do not think it is that you say first heaven is atmosphere where birds fly, and that second- .

Had atmosphere where birds fly be first heaven, many people would have gone to heaven by air plane.

[/quote]

But you couldn't stay there anyway. Solid bodies cannot live in the sky.

Similarly, if Heaven were in space, we would boil away.

The true Heaven likewise requires a change of being.

ICXC NIKA


#13

[quote="Darryl_B, post:2, topic:324782"]
There are three heavens.

  1. Atmosphere where birds fly.
  2. Space the final frontier (though that is not entirely correct, it is is second to last final frontier). It is the space between the firmaments. At the outer extent of the universe is the outer firmament, a body of water.
  3. Outside the universe. Where God is.

I have seen people show a picture of the stars at night and say, is this where you want to be? Heaven? That is not the heaven of reward, that is only the second heaven.

[/quote]

**The Navarre Bible **commentary relates a similar explanation:

"The third heaven": according to some commentators, this simply refers to the situation in which the blessed dwell, that is, the most sublime level of divine contemplation. Others see in it an echo of Jewish traditions which spoke of a first heaven (the atmosphere of the earth), a second (the heaven of the stars) and a third (the dwelling-place of God). In any event, "Paradise" (v.4) would have the same meaning.

The Ignatius Study Bible also has a similar rendering of the three levels of heaven.


#14

So, Jesus ascended [visibly seen] into the 1st Heaven, and we assume on into the 2nd Heaven, .... and to the 3rd Heaven [outside this Universe.. where the Father resides] ?

Paul got a vision of this 3rd Heaven perhaps .... and so did John ?


#15

[quote="Darryl_B, post:9, topic:324782"]
I would strongly urge you not to take Wikipedia as a source of information.

[/quote]

:)
You are right, and I will follow your advice.
however, that Wikipedia pages some you can trust.


#16

[quote="GEddie, post:12, topic:324782"]
But you couldn't stay there anyway. Solid bodies cannot live in the sky.

Similarly, if Heaven were in space, we would boil away.

The true Heaven likewise requires a change of being.

ICXC NIKA

[/quote]

:angel1:

:blush:

True.

and I know to go to Heavens requires a change of being like trees and other plant seed is not the true body and that when you plant, they will grow out different- I have plant some herbs seeds, - They are growing out.-

I thought that the atmosphere where birds fly just can be called sky. I thought that even first heaven is beyond dome of the sky. Now we are not been changed yet, so that many people take air plane been to the atmosphere where birds fly they only can say they been to sky, but they could not say they have been to heaven.

**Genesis 1
1In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, 2the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

6 And God said, ‘Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.’ 7So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so. 8God called the dome Sky.

14 And God said, ‘Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, 15and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth.’ And it was so. 16God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth, 18to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.**


#17

[quote="R_C, post:11, topic:324782"]
Mystics suggest that the state of heaven, or the experience of the Beatific Vision, is divided in seven layers according to the amount of grace merited by the soul. St. Therese of Lisieux wonderfully explains with the utter simplicity of those who are like little children but the first in the Kingdom, that everyone is like a glass full of water to the top. but some by their life and merits have become bigger glasses, others have remained smaller. But all are filled to the top, so that nobody may be unhappy. The division in layers of grace is shown to be existing in the angelic hosts as well (who, as the Church teaches, underwent their own moral testing at the beginning) and evidence for that division is present in certain passages of Scripture where some are closer to the glory of God, many others farther. Closer and farther, as well as layers, are no more of a figure of speech than the glasses of the Little Flower, for in truth eternity and the Beatific Vision cannot be understood in terms of size or distance. However, it is fairly possible that St. Paul was given a vision of one part of the beatific vision - it has happened to other saints as well - or that - as others mention - he was just using a way of speech that would make what he meant clear to his brothers.

According to some commentaries:

[/quote]

Really great insights here. In regards to "The Habitation"; do they mean the Temple that Solomon built; a heaven on earth?


#18

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