What is the "word?"

I took this from my discussion on www.talkintruth.com and I thought I would get it over here before they erased it like some of my other posts. It’s sad when you work hard on something and the folks who run the board think there protestant brothers and sisters are too weak to handle a good teaching. Anyway, I feel heavy hearted about my posts disappearing and have to re-aafirm why I LOVE being catholic and why I love this forum where there is real freedom to teach and grow. Praise god for catholic answers forums! anyway here is a discussion I started and i thought it would be good here. the gentleman I was discussing with goes by “Matthew”…

**Matthew wrote:*****Now, everyone can agree that the King James Version is the main Protestant bible and that the New American Bible is the Official Bible of the Catholic Church. ***

*One clear distinction that must be made here in light of both of these scriptures from both bibles, is that God declares that his word “is truth” in John 17:17 and that the church is “of the truth” in I Timothy 3:15. There is no denying this no matter which bible you are looking at.

John 17:17- “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” (KJV)

I Timothy 3:15 - “but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (KJV)

John 17:17- “Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth.” (New American Bible)

I Timothy 3:15- “But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” (New American Bible)

*How can it not be more clear from either faction’s scripture that the word is truth and that the church is derived from and subject to the word? *

The word came first folks. (John 1:1)*

Hello brothers and sisters & good afternoon!

Hope ya’ll are being blessed in the peace of our Messiah Jesus today amen?

I wanted to address this issue of the "word" brought up by Matthew. Firstly I thank you for taking the time to address this issue and I hope this can be done peacefully and in the love of Christ. I am going to get controversial right off the bat and say that I believe equating the word simply with the bible is tantamount to “bibli-olitry” and takes away from the real living word Jesus Christ. The “written word” the scriptures is one thing, inspired by God and sacred yes, I am not disagreeing with that, but there is only one “living word” and that is Jesus who is not only God but man as well. The God/man Jesus Christ true God from true God. Matthew seesm to be talking about two seperate things when he says:

…The word came first folks. (John 1:1)

Lets look at that passage for a second:

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have SEEN with our eyes, which we have LOOKED at and our hands have TOUCHED, this we proclaim concerning the WORD OF LIFE…”

My question to you all: Is John talking about scripture? I big walking leather bound bible with a dove or fish on the front? No! He is talking about a person, and that person is called THE WORD OF TRUTH and that person is Jesus the Son of the Living God!

Let’s look at another verse:

John 1:1-5

"In the beginning was THE WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was GOD. Through Him all things were made. In Him was the light of life and that life was the light of men.

So once again we see that the WORD is GOD, the living God not simply scriptures, but a living God!

How about one more that is often misunderstood:

Hebrews 4:12:

"For the WORD of God is LIVING and ACTIVE, sharper than any double edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing souls and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. (13) NOTHING IN CREATION IS IS HIDDEN FROM GODS SIGHT. EVERYTHING IS UNCOVERED AND LAY BARE BEFORE THE EYES OF HIM TO WHOM ME MUST GIVE ACCOUNT.



Most folks for their memory verse usually stop at twelve failing to look carefully at thirteen which reveals this living and active Word is not the bible, but the living God in whom nothing is hidden. Yes, to be fair, some, of His words are written down, but I ask you this: Did Jesus come to write a book or did He come to save sinners and build a living church? He commanded the disciples to preah, not write correct? Could you please show me one verse where Jesus tells his followers to write down these words, I’m planning to write a book? No He says to PREACH what i have taught you! Yes, later they would preserve the words of our Lord in writing but this had to be done to fight the many heresies that were arising from the “mystery religions”.

Again I am not denying to usefulness and power of scripture, I am simply saying that Jesus did not come to write books, he came to teach us to live as He lived, He came to build a living Church that he would dweel in!

Matthews words here are true:

…How can it not be more clear from either faction’s scripture that the word is truth and that the church is derived from and subject to the word?

Amen I say! The Church is built on the living Word Jesus Christ so we agree with Matthew.

**What was the true intent of Christ? **Ephesians 3:10

"That through the CHURCH His manifold wisdom should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the HEAVENLY REALMS according to His eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus the Lord.

So coming back around full circle to my origanal question:

1 Timothy 3:15 says that the ***“church” is the pillar and foundation of truth"***I ask you this Matthew, if you are equating the word "truth’ with only scriptures, are you saying the church is built on the Old Testament scriptures seeing as there was not a cannon completed at this time? I do not recollect there being a completed New Testament leather bound served up hot off the press with a fish stamped on the front? Am I missing something? It seems that what Timothy is saying in my understanding is the Church, being built on Jesus Christ the living word, embodys the truth, the Spirit of the living God, remember the church is His Holy temple, his house and and we his people are mystically joined to Him. The foundation built on Christ is the Apostles (See Revelation 21:14)

It says the wall of the city (New Jerusalem) had twelve foundations and on each PILLAR were written the names of the twelve Apostles!

A careful studying of the first and second century church will reveal they carried the “spoken” word with as they preached far and wide, the apostolic traditions handed on to them through the apostles. the cannon of scripture would not be complete for several centuries after the apostles passed away!

81 “Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.”
“And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching.”

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, “does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.”

171 The Church, “the pillar and bulwark of the truth”, faithfully guards “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints”. She guards the memory of Christ’s words; it is she who from generation to generation hands on the apostles’ confession of faith. As a mother who teaches her children to speak and so to understand and communicate, the Church our Mother teaches us the language of faith in order to introduce us to the understanding and the life of faith.

108 Still, the Christian faith is not a “religion of the book.” Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, a word which is “not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living”. If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, “open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures.”

Blessings in our Lord Jesus - Max

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