What is Wikipedia saying!?


#1

Tell me if this is what we Catholics believe about Judaism, because that’s not what I believe:

“Some Christians today, particularly of Roman Catholic and Calvinistic Reformed churches, hold to Replacement theology, the belief that the Jews’ chosenness ended with Christ’s sacrifice: Jews who remain non-Christian are considered to no longer be chosen, since they reject Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God. This position has been softened by some adherents, or completely rejected by some churches where Jews are recognized to have a special status due to their covenant with God the Father (through Abraham), so this continues to be an area of ongoing dispute among Christians.”

The Jews could NEVER loose their position as chosen people. Even if we have the sixth Covenant and we Gentiles are now part of God’s People, you have to remember that God never forgets or ‘erases’ His Convenants, they just grow (showing His Love for all humanity).

Am I wrong in thinking this?!


#2

Yeah, but how can Jews still be God’s chosen if they reject Christ?


#3

Remember Wikipedia can be edited by regular people. It’s monitored but I don’t think they catch a lot of stuff. I’ve seen many controversial and incorrect things on there.


#4

[quote=scapularkid8]"Some Christians today, particularly of Roman Catholic and Calvinistic Reformed churches, hold to Replacement theology, the belief that the Jews’ chosenness ended with Christ’s sacrifice: Jews who remain non-Christian are considered to no longer be chosen, since they reject Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God.
[/quote]

This is typical BBC anti-Catholicism. I see they have not changed a bit. It is not what the Church teaches. The only replacement theologists whom I know who claim to be Catholic are rabid anti-semites and believe every variety of nonsense except what the Church asks them to believe. Frankly, they embarrass me and I avoid their company.

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

…The Church, therefore, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in His inexpressible mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can she forget that she draws sustenance from the root of that well-cultivated olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles. Indeed, the Church believes that by His cross Christ, Our Peace, reconciled Jews and Gentiles. making both one in Himself… God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes…

[LEFT]APOSTOLIC JOURNEY TO COLOGNE
ON THE OCCASION OF THE XX WORLD YOUTH DAY

VISIT TO THE SYNAGOGUE OF COLOGNE
ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI
Cologne - Synagogue
Friday, 19 August 2005
[/LEFT]

The conciliar Declaration Nostra Aetate therefore “deplores feelings of hatred, persecutions and demonstrations of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews at whatever time and by whomsoever”

[LEFT]ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
TO A DELEGATION OF THE INTERNATIONAL JEWISH COMMITTEE
ON INTERRELIGIOUS CONSULTATIONS

Thursday, 9 June 2005[/LEFT]

…my predecessors Pope Paul VI and, in a particular way, Pope John Paul II, took significant steps towards improving relations with the Jewish people. It is my intention to continue on this path.

[LEFT]ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
TO THE CHIEF RABBIS OF ISRAEL

Friday, 15 September 2005
[/LEFT]
LETTER OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE COMMISSION
FOR RELIGIOUS RELATIONS WITH THE JEWS
ON THE OCCASION OF THE 40th ANNIVERSARY
OF THE DECLARATION “NOSTRA AETATE”

See also what JP2 had to say.


#5

Because God does not repent of his gifts.


#6

I’m kind of confused. Are you saying that Catholics believe Jews go to heaven?


#7

Catholics believe that Jews CAN go to heaven, as the Catholic faith does not exclude anyone from getting to heaven. Only God judges that.


#8

So they can go to heaven… but I would imagine that this is contingent upon whether or not they accept Christ, right?

I really am just asking because I don’t know.


#9

Jews can go to heaven just like Muslims can or Mormons can. As Catholics we know that we will go to heaven if we die in a state of grace. It’s possible for people of other religions…that’s all. It’s certain for us if we avail ourselves of the sacraments and die in a state of grace.


#10

No. It is contingent on God’s judgment which none of us can know. Consider individuals who never have an opportunity to know Christ. Are they lost? Not necessarily. See *Lumen Gentium *Chapter II for a clear introduction to this problem. And an understanding of the importance of evangelization.

JSA


#11

I was under the impression that the Jews were looked as being the older brother while Christians are looked at as being the younger brother. If that’s the case the site would be saying that the older brother was kicked out of the family.

Wiki is not the most authoritative source. More and more universities and colleges are banning their students from using Wiki as a reference. I ALWAYS take everything I read on Wiki with a really HUGE grain of salt.


#12

Yes.

The Catholic Church, and Her members are now “Israel” - the Hebrew race and the people of the “Jewish” faith are now outside of “God’s Chosen”.

Not saying all Jews go to Hell, nor do all Catholics go to Heaven.

However, God’s “vehicle” here on Earth is the Catholic Church, it became “Israel” through Jesus.


#13

Okay, that clarifies some things for me. I always knew Christ became the new Temple and the Priest and the Sacrifice, in effect Zion. I understood that (and accept it), but I guess what I’m confused on is why any Jew would not convert to Catholocism knowing this and having it explained to them.


#14

Wikipedia’s Catholic entries are under extreme investigation, especially since their religions guy was found to only have a HS diploma, and not what he claimed.


#15

Because they don’t believe, that’s why they don’t convert.


#16

John the baptist (a jew) said:

And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. matt 3:9

Jesus (also a Jew) said:

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. John 8:39

I suggest reading the whole chapter in each case to appreciate the context.

I believe that the scriptures tell us that only those who “act” like heirs to the covenant are still eligible for it. That means that someone merely being of hebrew ancestry is not guaranteed anything. they have to act like children of the covenant. conversely those “gentiles” who accept Christ and act like his disciples are “adopted” into the house of israel.

To be frank Jews (and all the other hebrew tribes) are still God’s chosen people. INDIVIDUALS though can act in a way to be “disowned” and others can act in a way to receive the benefits of being heirs to abraham.

Now just so no one gets the wrong idea, your works are NOT sufficient. GRACE saves you BUT your works “enable” that to occur.


#17

just in general, wikipedia isn’t that reliable.


#18

I am very pleased that Catholics (evidentally) believe that people of all faiths can possibly get into heaven.

That was one of the main reasons I’ve kind of drifted away from my protestant roots, actually: all the hell.

EDIT: I’d also like to express my opinion that while wikipedia itself may not be that accurate, the articles at least contain APA documentation of sources so we can evaluate their validity ourselves. And when you hear people say “wikipedia is banned as a resource at a lot of colleges” that really just means you can’t cite wikipedia as your source. I don’t think any teacher has a problem if a student simply consults wikipedia to get an idea of where to start his research.


#19

Most people are surprised to hear that we think this way. They just think of Crusades and Inquisitions when they think Catholicism.


#20

Jews need to have faith in Christ like anyone else to be saved. Their covenant is intact in its fulfilled form, but they are not faithful to it by refusing to put their faith in Jesus Christ.

The People of God, which in Old Testament times was called “Israel” is now called “the Catholic Church.” It is no longer just for faithful Jews (that is, people of the Jewish race who have embraced Jesus and the fullness of truth) but membership has also been extended tofaithful Gentiles as well. Likewise, Jews who reject the gifts of God by refusing to embrace the Messiah are cut off from the people of God. The Second Vatican Council embraced this doctrine greatly throughout Lumen Gentium (it is why it uses the phrase “People of God”). It also explicitly calls the Church, the “new Israel.”

“Israel according to the flesh, which wandered as an exile in the desert, was already called the Church of God.(96) So likewise the new Israel which while living in this present age goes in search of a future and abiding city (97) is called the Church of Christ.(98)”


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