What Jesus Said Is A Fact, Truth, And An Absolute, Right?


#1

**The following Scriptures are all God’s Word, and in order to get to Heaven we have to live the Word Right?

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal.”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

(John 6:55-56) “For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me and I live in him.”

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”**


#2

Yes. Absolutely.

Jesus also said:

**(Luke 14:26) "If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. **

**(Luke 22:36) He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one. **

(Luke 12:51-53) Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

(Matthew 18:8-9) And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Jesus said many things and all of them are true but did he mean everything he said to be taken literally or was he using hyperbole? Only those whom Jesus appointed to teach in His Church, the Apostles, and the men His Apostles appointed to succeed them as teachers, the bishops of the Catholic Church, know for sure.


#3

One interesting thing to note:

Jesus said all these things and more, but remember, it didn’t make sense to the apostles until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended upon them and revealed the true meaning of all Christ did while He lived among them. It was then that they went out to spread the Good News - having the full meaning of the Word made Flesh.

So, yes, the Catholic Church is the one blessed with the full Truth (at least as full as has been revealed to date, it continues to be revealed through Her and we rely on the Holy Spirit to guide Her through proper interpretation of new revelations).


#4

[quote=Todd Easton]Yes. Absolutely.

Jesus also said:

**(Luke 14:26) "If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. **

**(Luke 22:36) He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one. **

(Luke 12:51-53) Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

(Matthew 18:8-9) And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Jesus said many things and all of them are true but did he mean everything he said to be taken literally or was he using hyperbole? Only those whom Jesus appointed to teach in His Church, the Apostles, and the men His Apostles appointed to succeed them as teachers, the bishops of the Catholic Church, know for sure.
[/quote]

Hi Todd, You should know by this time I know how to read Scripture. I always ask Jesus (Holy Spirit) to give me the understanding of what the Word is telling me.

You say only the Catholic Church can decide what a Scripture means. Well I am sure there is nothing I can say to change your mind. My job isn’t to change anybody’s thinking. I’m just to give a word. I will ask you to do yourself a favor though, read the following Scriptures and then sincerely go to Jesus and ask Him for His understating.

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.

(1 Peter 2:9-10) “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people at all and now you are the People of God; once you were outside the mercy and now you have been given mercy.”

(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”


#5

[quote=YinYangMom]One interesting thing to note:

Jesus said all these things and more, but remember, it didn’t make sense to the apostles until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended upon them and revealed the true meaning of all Christ did while He lived among them. It was then that they went out to spread the Good News - having the full meaning of the Word made Flesh.

So, yes, the Catholic Church is the one blessed with the full Truth (at least as full as has been revealed to date, it continues to be revealed through Her and we rely on the Holy Spirit to guide Her through proper interpretation of new revelations).
[/quote]

I believe my quote to Todd applies to you also.


#6

[quote=Robert Heibel]Hi Todd, You should know by this time I know how to read Scripture. I always ask Jesus (Holy Spirit) to give me the understanding of what the Word is telling me.

You say only the Catholic Church can decide what a Scripture means. Well I am sure there is nothing I can say to change your mind. My job isn’t to change anybody’s thinking. I’m just to give a word. I will ask you to do yourself a favor though, read the following Scriptures and then sincerely go to Jesus and ask Him for His understating.

(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.

(1 Peter 2:9-10) “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people at all and now you are the People of God; once you were outside the mercy and now you have been given mercy.”

(Hebrews 8:10-12) “No, this is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel when those days arrive-it is the Lord who speaks. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. Then I will be their God and they shall be my people. There will be no further need for neighbour to try to teach neighbour, or brother to say to brother, ’Learn to know the Lord’. No, they will all know me, the least no less than the greatest, since I will forgive their iniquities and never call their sins to mind.”
[/quote]

What I meant is that the Catholic Church is the sure interpreter of Sacred Scripture, the one that can always be trusted. All other interpreters are true only in so far as they agree with the Catholic Church.

Do you remember the story of Korah’s Rebellion in the Old Testament, Number 16:1-35? Korah and his company rejected the authority of Moses and Aaron. Know what their argument was for rejecting those whom the Lord had appointed them?
And they assembled themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said to them, "You have gone too far! For all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them; why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?"
Sound familiar? This sounds just like your argument to me: I’m a Christian; I have the Holy Spirit; I don’t need to listen to those whom the Lord has placed over me. Such arrogance! Such pride! Thank God he has not dealt with you as he did with Korah’s company and made the earth swallow you up but has offered you a chance to see the error of your ways and repent.

[size=2]St. Jude warns Christians not to reject the authority of those whom the Lord has appointed over them (the Apostles and their successors, the bishops of the Catholic Church) lest they perish in Korah’s rebellion:[size=2][/size]8Yet in like manner these men in their dreamings defile the flesh, reject authority, and revile the glorious ones. 9But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10But these men revile whatever they do not understand, and by those things that they know by instinct as irrational animals do, they are destroyed. 11Woe to them! For they walk in the way of Cain, and abandon themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error, and perish in Korah’s rebellion.

[/size]


#7

[quote=Todd Easton]What I meant is that the Catholic Church is the sure interpreter of Sacred Scripture, the one that can always be trusted. All other interpreters are true only in so far as they agree with the Catholic Church.

Do you remember the story of Korah’s Rebellion in the Old Testament, Number 16:1-35? Korah and his company rejected the authority of Moses and Aaron. Know what their argument was for rejecting those whom the Lord had appointed them?
And they assembled themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said to them, "You have gone too far! For all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them; why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?"
Sound familiar? This sounds just like your argument to me: I’m a Christian; I have the Holy Spirit; I don’t need to listen to those whom the Lord has placed over me. Such arrogance! Such pride! Thank God he has not dealt with you as he did with Korah’s company and made the earth swallow you up but has offered you a chance to see the error of your ways and repent.

[size=2]St. Jude warns Christians not to reject the authority of those whom the Lord has appointed over them (the Apostles and their successors, the bishops of the Catholic Church) lest they perish in Korah’s rebellion:[/size][size=2][/size]8Yet in like manner these men in their dreamings defile the flesh, reject authority, and revile the glorious ones. 9But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10But these men revile whatever they do not understand, and by those things that they know by instinct as irrational animals do, they are destroyed. 11Woe to them! For they walk in the way of Cain, and abandon themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error, and perish in Korah’s rebellion.

[/quote]

Todd, I’ll ask you again. How do you know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church? Do you just believe because of what you have read? Do you believe because someone told you? Do you believe because of the holy lives that the leaders of the Church have led? Do you believe because of how true the church is to living and teaching the Word of God? Do you believe because Jesus told you?

Now if Jesus tells you something then believe it?


#8

[quote=Robert Heibel]Todd, I’ll ask you again. How do you know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church? Do you just believe because of what you have read? Do you believe because someone told you? Do you believe because of the holy lives that the leaders of the Church have led? Do you believe because of how true the church is to living and teaching the Word of God? Do you believe because Jesus told you?

Now if Jesus tells you something then believe it?
[/quote]

Peace be with you.

How do you know absolutly for certain that it is Jesus telling you and is the Bible you are using is exactly what and or how Jesus intended his words to be interpreted?
Do you recieve direct intervention as many others claim? When others disagree with you are they correct as well?
Are you self taught? If yes then why should others listen to you?
If not then who is your teacher and why do you teach others if there is no need for neighbor to teach neighbor? Are all to go directly to Jesus for the answers or help? Is not helping your neighbor teaching the life of Christ?
Why go to a church and listen to someone else’s sermmond and their personal interpritation of the word if you do? What about persons who are lacking in full knowledge like myself in a lot of ways? Who teaches us what is correct and how would I know that I’m not being mislead either by others or simply through my own misunderstandings? After all I pray and ask for guidance before I read the Bible I believe to be the correct one. I believe this to be so because (yes) I do place my trust in others that God sends to help me as well as those in heaven.
Are we meant to be alone or are we to belong to the one Body?
Christ has taken only one Bride and protects Her from the gates of Hell.


#9

[quote=sirknightron]Peace be with you.

How do you know absolutly for certain that it is Jesus telling you and is the Bible you are using is exactly what and or how Jesus intended his words to be interpreted?
Do you recieve direct intervention as many others claim? When others disagree with you are they correct as well?
Are you self taught? If yes then why should others listen to you?
If not then who is your teacher and why do you teach others if there is no need for neighbor to teach neighbor? Are all to go directly to Jesus for the answers or help? Is not helping your neighbor teaching the life of Christ?
Why go to a church and listen to someone else’s sermmond and their personal interpritation of the word if you do? What about persons who are lacking in full knowledge like myself in a lot of ways? Who teaches us what is correct and how would I know that I’m not being mislead either by others or simply through my own misunderstandings? After all I pray and ask for guidance before I read the Bible I believe to be the correct one. I believe this to be so because (yes) I do place my trust in others that God sends to help me as well as those in heaven.
Are we meant to be alone or are we to belong to the one Body?
Christ has taken only one Bride and protects Her from the gates of Hell.
[/quote]

Let the Holy Spirit guide you. Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to teach and guide us. I am not a teacher. I just share some things that were taught to me, but everyone needs to go to Jesus to know what is right or wrong. Jesus can explain the Word to each person in a way that they can understand. Again my job is just to give a word.


#10

[quote=Robert Heibel]Let the Holy Spirit guide you. Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to teach and guide us. I am not a teacher. I just share some things that were taught to me, but everyone needs to go to Jesus to know what is right or wrong. Jesus can explain the Word to each person in a way that they can understand.
[/quote]

Amen, yes, but the Holy Spirit guides us through the Church, as He is the soul of the Church.

And Jesus does explain the Word to us - through His Body, the Church.

May we all seek Christ with a fervent heart through His Church!

God bless!


#11

[quote=Robert Heibel]Let the Holy Spirit guide you. Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to teach and guide us. I am not a teacher. I just share some things that were taught to me, but everyone needs to go to Jesus to know what is right or wrong. Jesus can explain the Word to each person in a way that they can understand. Again my job is just to give a word.
[/quote]

We do go to Jesus, and yes we know for sure that His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Catholic Church is the Church that He founded, He said so, and we believe HIM. We also believe those that He entrusted His Church too, and we know who that is. He told His Apostles that when the Holy Spirit came to them which He would send, that they would be led into all truth. We are taught of God, who teaches you??


#12

This is so sad. Jesus also said: “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church.” The scripture so freely quoted here is the product of the Church And only the Church, the chosen and anointed successors of Peter, in it’s Magesterial capacity, has the ability and warrent to inturpret it. It is inerrent, but only in the hands of the Magesterium. Listen to the Church. Do not make the mistake of the seperated breatheren, who haven’t a clue. I spent sixteen years and two master’s degrees in four different of their seminaries to learn this, because I didn’t want to. Don’t be as dense as I was. :banghead:


#13

[quote=Desert Father]This is so sad. Jesus also said: “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church.” The scripture so freely quoted here is the product of the Church And only the Church, the chosen and anointed successors of Peter, in it’s Magesterial capacity, has the ability and warrent to inturpret it. It is inerrent, but only in the hands of the Magesterium. Listen to the Church. Do not make the mistake of the seperated breatheren, who haven’t a clue. I spent sixteen years and two master’s degrees in four different of their seminaries to learn this, because I didn’t want to. Don’t be as dense as I was. :banghead:
[/quote]

:clapping: Welcome Home Desert!! Just keep praying and handing on the truth faithfully, as Fr. Corapi says, eventually it’ll sink in. (He is such a smart man.) :gopray2:


#14

[quote=Robert Heibel]The following Scriptures are all God’s Word, and in order to get to Heaven we have to live the Word Right?

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

**(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” **

**(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal.” **

**(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.” **

(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

(John 6:55-56) “For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me and I live in him.”

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”
[/quote]

**

[quote=]What Jesus Said Is A Fact, Truth, And An Absolute, Right?
[/quote]

**

It depends. It seems safe to assume that he was not saying a a real Samaritan helped a real victim of real brigands, even though the road from Jerusalem to Jericho was real enough - He was not telling a parable, not illustrating a biography.

Not all He said was an absolute - if it were, we would have to give all we have to the poor: the Church has never understood herself to be obliged to this; if anything, she has been rather severe to those who have insisted all Christians must do this.

So there is a dilemma for those who insist on absolutes: doing so, may provide ethical certainties - but, the same people, seldom take the same absolute approach to the NT. FWIW, I think insisting on moral absolutes breaks down, because choice in the real world often involves choosing the lesser of evils, rather than a good rather than evil. And because Jesus was talking to men in a peasant society; in a complex urban society, getting out of one’s obligations to one’s fellows is rather more diffiocult than if society were less complex and highly developed. The need for development of doctrine, is an implicit recognition that the NT cannot be taken in as straightfoward (“absolute”) a way as one might want. ##


#15

Tormentorum Dux Rodentium Armatorum Grave et Troglodytorum Explicator Potentissimus Eruditionum Excisarum Longissime Memoria Hominum

I studied Latin many years ago in high school. Let’s see if I can figure this one out.

torment the rodents and armadillos to the grave and bury them with the troglodytes. This is the most powerful saying in the long history and memory of men.


#16

[quote=BayCityRickL]Tormentorum Dux Rodentium Armatorum Grave et Troglodytorum Explicator Potentissimus Eruditionum Excisarum Longissime Memoria Hominum

I studied Latin many years ago in high school. Let’s see if I can figure this one out.

torment the rodents and armadillos to the grave and bury them with the troglodytes. This is the most powerful saying in the long history and memory of men.
[/quote]

:bigyikes: Have you ever visited the Troglodytes thread??


#17

[quote=Robert Heibel]I will ask you to do yourself a favor though, read the following Scriptures and then sincerely go to Jesus and ask Him for His understating.
[/quote]

Jesus didn’t promise me the gift of complete understanding. He didn’t have to because He gave that particular gift along with the protection of the Holy Spirit to Peter and from Peter to the Popes. It was the way HE chose to preserve His message to all people for all times. I would never presume to suggest He made a mistake in doing so or that it was not necessary. God doesn’t make mistakes. Everything is done for a reason.


#18

#19

[quote=Robert Heibel]Todd, I’ll ask you again. How do you know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church? Do you just believe because of what you have read?
[/quote]

Excuse me…
Aren’t you the one quoting scripture here, admonishing the rest of us for not relying on the Word?

WHAT we have read IS scripture and in Scripture Jesus established the Catholic Church with Peter. It’s there in black and white (or red if your bible uses red for any words spoken by Jesus).

The scriptures you cite pertain to conversations/speeches before the resurrection. Where in scripture after the section where Jesus gives the keys to His church to Peter do you find any words by Jesus retracting such a statement or contradicting it?


#20

[quote=Robert Heibel]Let the Holy Spirit guide you. Jesus gave us His Holy Spirit to teach and guide us. I am not a teacher. I just share some things that were taught to me, but everyone needs to go to Jesus to know what is right or wrong. Jesus can explain the Word to each person in a way that they can understand. Again my job is just to give a word.
[/quote]

He gave us the Holy Spirit so we would be open to receiving the rest of the gifts He left for us - through the seven sacraments and the Catholic Church.

Yes, we still go to Jesus to find out right from wrong. And in scripture Jesus answers us, specifically when we are reminded that He left Peter and the Church here to guide us until the end times and assured us that the gates of hell will never prevail against it. He didn’t say against Peter specifically, or any of the other apostles or disciples around at the time…no, He said the gates of hell will never prevail against his CHURCH and particularly Peter (and his successors) as head of that church.

Again, Jesus never made that promise to me personally…that the gates of hell will never prevail against my relationship with Christ or my understanding of scripture. He promised, instead, that I can always look to the Pope and the Church for the final word on any particular issue I’m facing in my life.


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