What must I do to be saved? (Revisited & Split)

What must I do to be saved? What does the Bible say about salvation?

Acts 16:29-31:
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

You have all heard this one, John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 6:47: (Jesus) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 10:28:
(Jesus) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Now, you all agree that God cannot lie, right?
And if He says that He will give eternal life to anyone who believes in His son, wouldn’t that be true? But if He then would take that eternal life away, it didn’t last forever, did it? And He lied…
Which He can’t.

Go to Matthew 7:21-23. This is intresting. I heard a guy mention earlier on this thread that one must do the will of the Father to get into heaven, and to that I believe he meant works, baptism, keeping His commandments etc etc. Read what Jesus says about that in this passage:

Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful WORKS?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

(Edited)

John 6:40: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 4:5:
But to him that WORKETH NOT, but BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 3:20:
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Dear friend, when you look at the ten commandments, can you say: “Man, I’ve kept those.”?
None of us can.

I also need to mention a guy who said on this thread that you have to do this and this and that to be saved and then he said, “but I fall short…” We all fall short of the glory of God. God demands PERFECTION for entrance into heaven. Think for one moment, who on this earth has lived a sinless perfect life? One name should pop up in your head. Jesus. He lived the life that we could never keep. Friends, God giveth grace unto the humble, it’s not humbling to say that you are going to heaven because you have been baptised, or attend church, or give to the poor, or love your neighbour as yourself, ALL THE TIME! That’s not faith in God, that’s faith in yourself, in your own good works. Did you read Matthew 7:21-23? Jesus will say DEPART FROM ME! I NEVER KNEW YOU! Those who are saved are declared righteouss in the sight of God because they have put all their faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

People who are not saved will be judged according to their works… This is what you’ll be judged by, Moses, in whom ye trust, Jesus said to the unbelieving jews.

Throw your NIV in the trashcan, get yourself some meat on the bones, get the
King James Version of the Bible.

I write this post because I love you, and God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. This is the truth, and I just proved it to you from the Bible.

1 John 5:13: These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Believe.

All of the above, save for the bolded, is very Catholic!

Of course, the KJV is an adequate translation of the Word of God and Catholics give it a :thumbsup:
but saying that all other versions are inferior is a MAN MADE TRADITION.

It is something that you’ve heard a man say. But you’ve never read that in a single page of the Bible.

Well, Catholics don’t believe in grace alone, through faith alone. They believe in faith + works.

And most bible translations apart from the KJV change alot of the doctrines tremensously.
If the newer translations said the exact same thing just with another sound to it, like “you” instrad of “thou”, it would be something diffrent… But they change the actual meaning of the text, so…

NO WE ABSOLUTELY DO NOT. May Our Lord Jesus Christ save us from such heresy!

The Economy of Salvation, according to the Catholic Church, is very simple. We are saved through the Grace of Christian Baptism ALONE (which is a “work,” but not what most would consider a “work.”). We can forfeit our salvation by commuting mortal sin, in which case salvation can be restored through the Grace of Sacramental Confession (again, a work, but not usually considered as such).

THAT’S IT.

By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin. In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam’s sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God. [CCC 1263]

Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion. It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. [CCC 1446]

There is NO MENTION of works (besides Baptism and Penance) in anything that the Church teaches regarding the Economy of Salvation. PLEASE quit spreading this heresy of faith+works. It is NOT, and NEVER HAS BEEN what the Church teaches. We are saved by Grace, NOT Grace+works.

Agreed,

But I suppose you’ll tell me that only the “1611 King James Bible” is the one to get, right?

I’m willing to bet dollars to doughnut holes that you don’t even have a 1611 edition KJB, because if you did you’d have all the Deuterocanonical books as well as 2 that the Eastern church has as well. If yours has 66 books then you are using the abridged version that came out in the 1850’s as a cost cutting measure by some Bible society that had no authority to tinker with the Word of God for the sake of their money.

In fact…King James himself passed a law that imprisoned anyone who published it with less than the full canon.

I feel sure that your preacher never told you any of these historical facts, did he? Wonder why? Maybe you should ask him Sunday in front of the whole congregation and tell him that those Papist Catholics told you. The fact is that I’ll wager even more that he doesn’t even know about it and can’t handle the facts of history.

I suggest that you have a careful look at these two links

[LIST]
*]God’s Love for You
*]Born Again - The Bible Way
[/LIST]

“Baptism - a work but not considred as such”
“Sacramental confession - a work but not considered as such”

First of all, you do not believe in once saved always saved. You believe that after you have been saved, you must live a certain life to keep your salvation. Now it’s no longer by the grace of God, but by your own works.

Should we be baptised? Yes
Should we confess our sins? Yes
Should we clean up our lives? Yes
Should we do all the other things which we are commanded? YES!

But these are all salvation aside.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Water baptism is not required for salvation.

Compare the NIV and KJV in Acts 8:36-38.

NIV: "36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”

[37] [a]

38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.

KJV: "36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Verse 37 completely removed and therefore changes the qualifications of baptism. Thats why the Catholic churched baptise infants.

So…you’re telling us that Baptism does not sacramentally wash away sins?

That’s very odd because Paul tells us in Acts 22:16 something different.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

And that is at Paul’s conversion, so why do you preach something contrary to what the Word of God actually says.

Moreover, OSAS is gross and dangerous error, just for instance, Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ Himself tells is in Revelation 3:5 (All from the KJB by the way. :D)

**" 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

[FONT=Georgia]Now…according to the Word of God, in order to be saved ones name must be written in the Book of Life, but here we see Jesus Himself saying that He will indeed blot some names out of that book. That’s not OSAS…[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia]Oh and we baptize infants because the New Testament allows it when you read the account of the Philippian jailer and his whole household, and because the early church did it. Gee, even the Pagan Romans knew this since they used to say of us, “They eat their God and they drown their children”…if they got it, why didn’t you?[/FONT]
**

James 2:14-26New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my** works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Your faith is shown by your works. At the same time though, we aren’t perfect, so we do need God’s constant grace. No we don’t save ourselves, we need to constantly turn towards Gods. Yes, you do need to try and live a good life. Anyone can say you love God, but then turn around a kill the person next to them,Sin separates us from God, and we need to constantly repent for our sins, and rely on his saving grace ot turn us on a path towards heaven. and water baptism is necessary.

Mark 16:16
"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

1 Peter 3:21

21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Acts 2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22:16
Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.’

Romans 6:3-4
Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.
Col 2:11-12

11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by** Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Also Jesus was baptized, and are we not suposed to follow in his example? Now there are some exceptions to water baptism, such in the case someone were to die or to be martyred before baptism though. They are exceptions, not the rule though.

catholic.com/tracts/the-necessity-of-baptism**

Also the KJV isn’t the most accurate. As mentioned above. Besides it was also made to be poetic and beautiful, not neceserally accurate.**

We must ONLY avoid mortal sin (and, even if we fail to do so, we have recourse through Confession). This is a NEGATIVE requirement (such as we must NOT do something bad, such as murdering someone), not a POSITIVE requirement (such as we MUST do something good, such as work in a soup kitchen). No Catholic is ever required, as a condition of salvation, to perform some act of charity such as working in a soup kitchen. So OUR WORKS do not determine our salvation.

Verse 37 completely removed and therefore changes the qualifications of baptism. Thats why the Catholic churched baptise infants.

No, it is Biblical:

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”[Acts 2]

Out of curiosity, would you consider “accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior” a “work” *(but not usually considered as such).

Is “accepting” not a “work”?

If an infant receives Christian Baptism, it is a “work” of the parent/minister (comparable to the circumcision of male infants to become part of the Jewish covenant).

Perhaps if you could offer something that shows where Catholicism teaches this?

And most bible translations apart from the KJV change alot of the doctrines tremensously.
If the newer translations said the exact same thing just with another sound to it, like “you” instrad of “thou”, it would be something diffrent… But they change the actual meaning of the text, so…

Well, if you could give a Bible verse that supports that the KJV is the only translation to use, that would be great.

Otherwise, what you are doing is expressing a belief…

that’s not found in the Bible…

and that makes it a…

MAN-MADE TRADITION.

You heard a (fallible) man say that the KJV is the best, and he heard another (fallible) man say that, who heard another (fallible) man say it…

but no one ever read that in a single page of the Bible.

Not a problem, of course.

Except I would be very, very wary of following fallible men.

What “work” is it that infants do?

My understanding is that they just lay there, gurgle and look cute as a bug, and receive the grace confected in the sacrament.

They “do” nothing at all.

Yet are saved.

So that’s pretty much a clear cut example of someone who’s Catholic being saved, yet has done not a single work. :shrug:

Baptism washes away original sin and all other sin to that point…but “The just man sins 7 times each day” and by his/her human nature has the propensity of sinfulness he/she must fight. The flesh fights the spirit, and the spirit fights the flesh." I use the Jerusalem Bible with ample foot notes that explain the origin, etymology of key words in the scripture. All knowledge and understanding is a gift of the Spirit as a guide and inspiration on our way to God. Our Lord Jesus Christ give us signs and is the only One who can forgive our sins through Baptism and ongoing Sacrament of Confession.

I already have, in post #7 (the same post that you pulled my quote from).

Well, if you could give a Bible verse that supports that the KJV is the only translation to use, that would be great.

The KJV (and other less-modern translations) preserve the singular/plural of the pronoun “you.” In modern English, “you” can be singular or plural. But, in Greek (and in older English), it is not. Older translations preserve the singular “you” (Ὑμεῖς - thee, thou, thy) and the plural (Σὺ - you, ye).

Preserving the singular/plural nature of the pronoun makes it more clear, for example, that at one point Jesus is addressing the group of Apostles, but then switches and addresses Peter specifically:

He saith unto them, But whom say ye (Σὺ) that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou (Ὑμεῖς), Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. [Matt 16:15-17 KJV]

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 16:15-17[/BIBLEDRB]

Huh?

David? Do you have me confused with a different poster?

Actually, have you been hacked? Are you really dowelliee?

:confused:

I was responding to your post #11. You asked me for a Catechism reference, but I had already given it in post #7. The first reference says we are saved by the Grace of Christian Baptism. The second one says that our Baptismal Grace, if ever lost, is renewed through Sacramental Confession. No Catholic is ever, as a condition of his salvation, required to perform acts of charity (which is what most people think of when they say “works”).

Failure to perform an act of charity which would be reasonably expected (such as helping a child in distress when you are able to do so) could constitute mortal sin, which would cause the loss of our Sanctifying Grace. But performing the act would not help us attain salvation. Works (of either commission or omission) can cause the loss of our salvation, but they can never enable it.

It is therefore absolutely false to claim that Catholics are saved by faith + works, or that works play any role in the Catholic view of the economy of Salvation. We are saved by Grace. Being in a State of Grace assures salvation. Good works cannot place us in a state of Grace - only Baptism and Confession can do that.

Actually, have you been hacked? Are you really dowelliee?

Of course not. For one thing, I use a browser with a flippin’ spell checker. Although Dowelliee did have a valid point about the word “you”

About this, at least, Dowelliee is correct. But I suggest that s/he toss that KJV and get an RSV (assuming s/he wants a protestant Bible).

No, David. I did not ask you.

I asked Dowelliee to provide some documentation for what she said represented Catholic teaching.

She was presenting something as, “The CC says [A[/COLOR]]” but it was an incorrect explication of Catholic teaching.

That’s why I asked her to provide a reference.

Because…

Well, Catholics don’t believe in grace alone, through faith alone. They believe in faith + works…

Catholics do believe in grace through faith. And we do not believe in faith plus works.

We are saved through grace by faith working in love.

You absolutely DO have me confused with someone else, David.

There are so many places where you are going wrong it is hard to keep track of them. Sorry for having to say that to a brother in the faith, but it needs to be said.

In Ephesians Paul is talking about the works of the law as not saving. This is a theme that is all over his writings. It is not works in general as in a literalist interpretation. Context please :):):slight_smile:

1st Peter 3:21 has baptism as saving. God and scripture does not contradict. We have to have the understanding of how it all makes sense together which is why the context is important.

Peace and grace to you.

Catholics believe in Grace alone. Our works don’t save us. However, our faith is expressed and lived by our works. Faith without works is dead, (James 2:24)

I noticed in all those saving passages you mentioned that you left out an important one:

** Matthew 19:16-22New King James Version (NKJV)**

***Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Man


Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
He said to Him, “Which ones?”
*Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ *‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Lots of actions going on here. Wouldn’t you say?
Subrosa

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