What percentage of Jesuits hold heretical beliefs?


#1

This is an honest question. I’ve read some nasty things about them from the ex-Jesuit, Malachi Martin. At least two priests (who shall remain anonymous) have also joked about how someone needs to convert the Jesuits.


#2

I know one great Jesuit Father Mitch Pacwa on EWTN.
Ok I know him through the boob tube.:smiley:
While I hear the rumors of modernist taking over the order I don’t think their is anyway of knowing what percentage of the order is unorthodox. And I don’t think this trend is just in the Jesuit order this is a trend that has run through most of the church since vatican 2 although things have gotten better the last 15 years in our seminaries and should continue to be better as moire dross was expelled during the priest scandal.


#3

We have no idea of what percent of the Jesuits hold to heretical beliefs. All we know is hearsay (a pun).

Since a Jesuit doesn’t answer to a local Bishop but answers directly to the Pope, wouldn’t that fact generate stories predicated upon jealousy? Also, I am aware that there can be a few bad apples considering there are thousands of Jesuits.:rolleyes:


#4

[quote=Madaglan]This is an honest question. I’ve read some nasty things about them from the ex-Jesuit, Malachi Martin.
[/quote]

Be very careful when reading Malachi Martin. He had a bone to pick and is VERY biased. He made some pretty outrageous claims, including that some of the highest ranking Cardinals in the Vatican are actually satanists who have desecrated St. Paul’s Chapel in the Vatican and reconsecrated it to Satan, performing an “Enthronement of Satan” rite or something like that. He made scandalous accusation after accusation.

About the Jesuits, there are some who hold heretical beliefs, just as there are some in your parish, every religious order, my parish, etc. I think the poster who mentioned jealousy has a good point. The Jesuits have always been–except for the period they were supressed, of course–the “Pope’s men.” They have always been the elite of the elite and I don’t mean that derisively. The contributions the Jesuits have made to Western culture and development are truly amazing. No doubt their current orthodoxy, to generalize the whole order, leaves something to be desired but people rant against them, i.e. Malachi Martin, too often and without reason.

  • JP

#5

This is a very offensive thread. It maligns the Jesuits, one of whom was Father John Hardon, S.J., whose cause for sainthood has been raised.

We should be more selective about what we believe and investigate Malachi Martin before swallowing his bull-oney. No, not all Jesuits are orthodox. Others are very orthodox. But I don’t think dissent can be quantified. Pray for priests.

Kill this thread.

JMJ Jay


#6

This is a rude thread. My archbishop is a Jesuit and I was taught by Jesuits.

I know many of them to be faithful and loyal sons of the Church.

If you feel not enough of them are why don’t you bring your evidence to the Pope.

I am sure he is aware of which orders have dissenting members, which orders are dealing properly with these dissenters.

Yet while the Society of Jesus is an order in good standing with the Holy See I don’t see your speculation as anything more than rude and counterproductive.

And Malachi Martin is a class one wingnut. I would not even deign to put his name on a public forum. Doing so might lead others to read his crazy works.

Your poll is rude too. Singling out this order is unfair when large amounts of laity are getting divorced, contracepting and accepting of homosexuality and abortion.

We should be pointing the fingers at ourselves. The Church establishes and, if need be, closes orders.

The society of Jesus is fully Catholic. I am not so sure you are since your baseless (and it is baseless - based on no objective evidence) poll only hurts their order, the church and religion in general.

I have the utmost of respect for nuns and priests who take long novitiates and to my knowledge the Jesuits still have one of the longest.

Would you take that many years out of your life to be assessed for a vocation? Would you accept its military structures and go work where you are told to, for however long?

This sounds like a poll for poll’s sake. I don’t see its intrinsic worth or value to the communion.


#7

[quote=Exporter]Since a Jesuit doesn’t answer to a local Bishop but answers directly to the Pope,
[/quote]

Tht is not really correct; Jesuits answer to their local Provincial and to the Father General of the Order. Not all Jesuits take the 4th vow.


#8

Yes I missed that: every priest of every rite, and every order answers to the local ordinary.

To have any ministry in the local diocese, they must have the permission of the local ordinary.

Even Opus Dei priests may only have missions and works in dioceses that allow them.

He is confusing the way the Society of Jesus is structured with secular (diocesan) priests. Even if their provincial orders them to an orphanage in Kenya, once there they are under the Kenyan bishop’s and the Kenyan archbishop’s authority.


#9

:frowning:

I’m sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intention. I’m simply trying to better understand the current situation of the Jesuits. Several parish priests I have spoken with jest that the Jesuits need to be converted (i.e. that they hold heretical views). You people who just posted here are the first ones I’ve heard say, “Yes! The Jesuits are very orthodox in their beliefs, just as they have always been.” If I had personally heard of any good stories about the Jesuits, I would have never posted this question.

[font=Arial]If you want to kill this thread, then I’m fully for it. I don’t know any Jesuits, have only seen one once, and most of what I know about recent Jesuits is from accussations of them as liberals. I’ve also heard personal stories about certain public allowances at a certain Jesuit University which defies what the Church teaches. I don’t know why everyone maligns me as being rude when I started my thread by mentioning that this is an honest question. I want to know about the Jesuits–not from books–but from people who personally have known Jesuits. Ok bye. [/font]


#10

[quote=Katholikos]This is a very offensive thread. It maligns the Jesuits, one of whom was Father John Hardon, S.J., whose cause for sainthood has been raised.

We should be more selective about what we believe and investigate Malachi Martin before swallowing his bull-oney. No, not all Jesuits are orthodox. Others are very orthodox. But I don’t think dissent can be quantified. Pray for priests.

Kill this thread.

JMJ Jay
[/quote]

My Gosh Father Hardon was the very definition of Orthodox Catholic loyal to the church and the mageterium. I bet he was more Orthodox the zany Malachi Martin.:stuck_out_tongue:


#11

[quote=Madaglan]:frowning: I’m sorry if I offended anyone.
[/quote]

You certainly did not offend me. Catholics have had different experiences and to those not aware of any particular problems sonetimes things come as a surprise. Then there are those who have a great and sentimental attachment to certain orders and it touches a nerve when any critique is offered or suggested.

[quote=Madaglan] It was not my intention. I’m simply trying to better understand the current situation of the Jesuits.
[/quote]

Well the poll is really an unanswerable one. I doubt if more than a few Jesuits themselves would hazard a guess as their order is global and what would be true in one province would not necessarily be accurate in another.

[quote=Madaglan]Several parish priests I have spoken with jest that the Jesuits need to be converted (i.e. that they hold heretical views).
[/quote]

Some years back the pope nearly supressed them he was so furious with what was happening. He appointed Cardinal Dezza who was a Jesuit to try and straighten them out - unfortunately due to Fr.'s advanced age and his trust that those he talked to were being totally truthful, he did do some rearranging but most people including members of their own order would agree, they ain’t what they used to be. This really reflects the Church of today, other orders such as Dominicans, Carmelites, all have had their internal problems, but because the Jesuits were considered the most intellectual order in the Church and some of their more “unorthodox” members have garnered more than a few headlines, they have kind of become the “point” for this kind of problem.

[quote=Madaglan]If you want to kill this thread,
[/quote]

Please do not allow others to intimidate you here. You asked a respectful question, it is just that the poll would not be answerable as I’ve said.

[quote=Madaglan] I don’t know why everyone maligns me as being rude when I started my thread by mentioning that this is an honest question. I want to know about the Jesuits–
[/quote]

The Jesuits have a number of good and faithful members, as they always seem to do, others have suffered a quiet martyrdom of thought and speech from their less charitable brothers, others have made a lot of noise and are considered both political and unorthodox representatives.

I am sorry you were treated rudely and I do hope you understand.


#12

While I agree that the title of the thread is possibly not the best, it is easy to understand the sentiment behind the question. There is no doubt that the Jesuits have made enormous contributions to both the Western World in general and to the Church;however, unorthodox teachings can come from Jesuits just as easily as they can from anyone save the Pope. It is also easy to understand that some people might be confused when a Jesuit magazine website www.americamagazine.org has a link to “Call To Action Call To Action is a national Catholic organization of 25,000 laity, religious, priests and bishops. It advocates for reforms in the Catholic Church such as the ordination of women, optional celibacy for priests, more focus on the church’s social justice teaching, and consultation with the Catholic people on church decision-making.”
(pulled from their links page)
[font=Arial]I don’t think the spirit behind this question is malicious. I think it would do us well to discuss why this conception exists. Surely we can have this discussion w/o maligning their reputation. I have had the privilege of knowing several priests of various orders. Most of the Jesuits that I met were among the most brilliant men I have ever encountered. Their passion for Our Lord and for spreading his Gospel was as amazing to me as somthing one of them told me when I asked for help with my NT Greek, “I can still do fairly well with the Greek (he was over 80 at the time) as long as I have the Latin to help with the tough spots.”[/font]

Surely an honest and open discussion will only serve to emphasize the amazing caliber of priest we have in the Jesuits while not shying away from what may be tough questions.


#13

I think that the very least you can say is that certain leading dissenters, and certain leading dissenting institutions, are Jesuit. I know a very great Jesuit, Fr. Hugh Thwaites S.J., but it is also true to say that the Jesuit establihment here in the U.K. is at the forefront of dissent. One case comes to mind of a faithful Jesuit who has written on the decline of the Jesuits in Britain. He has repeatedly requested permission to publish his work, but has been refused by his superiors. On the other side of the equation, countless numbers of his confreres have been given permission to publish and promote books and articles that challenge virtually very dogma of the Faith. Go figure.


#14

why don’t you read America, the Jesuit’s magazine, for a year and then answer this question, or if you have a lot of money to throw around, spend about $100 grand on a Jesuit college for your kid, listen to what they have to say about their faith and morals in general when they graduate, and then state your opinion.


#15

Right, and if you read anything written by Jack Chick, specifically anything referring to Alberto Rivera, you would assume that the Jesuits are the Vatican’s version of the CIA, complete with licence to kill without prejudice.


#16

This thread is built largely upon hearsay and opinion and can serve no good purpose. While problems may exist, it is unfair to broadbrush all Jesuits because of the behavior of a select group. This Thread has been closed.

Paul Stephens
Moderator


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