What the internet has killed

[quote="Steel_Pinwheel, post:20, topic:222298"]
Healthcare is always safe and growing, even though it is already a very popular career choice for young people. Technology is part of the reason we've become such a service-career oriented society (the other reason, cheap imports).

People who think the lack of flying cars contradicts the people who make strong predictions about robots don't see the difference between improvements in automation/efficiency vs. new kinds of technology. Really, the technology already exists for robots to take over, all that needs to be done is some tweaking and cost reduction. A robot lawnmower costs about $1500, when it costs $100, every home owner will have one. Or consider, farming, when illegal immigrants make sub-minimum wage, a robot picker that does a so-so job just isn't worth it - but that will change.

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:D From the stories my dh has to tell they are going to have to do a lot more than just simply tweak the robots. Your talking about completely redesigning the things. Oh well, it creates really good job security for him.:thumbsup:

[quote="latin_rite, post:18, topic:222298"]
Phone books, what are they? It's been so long since i have actually seen one, i have forgotten what they look like, I can't see dvd's/blu ray rentals fading out for a while. The rental stores i go to are always busy. I think it is just easier to go to the store to be honest. The only time i turn to online movie renting is if i am after a hard to get movie.

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There are no more video rental stores in my town. Anywhere. We have these redbox things in Krogers, which are pretty cheap. Netflix has killed video rental stores. I haven't rented a movie from a store in about 8 years.

Hard drives are on the way out.
The next step is "cloud computing" where nothing is actually on your PC but stored on remote servers. I got a little taste when I decided to check out Google Books -- you don't actually download books as when you buy a book from B&N for your nook, it's just dded to your library.
As long you have a connection you can read your books via any device -- sounds cool, no?

BUT, once you apply to that to doing all your business and personal computing, it's all in one place for ID thieves to steal or the gov't or business to paw thru.

Another casualty will be history (of our time and subsequent). Most historiogaphy is based on letters, diaries, government documents, &c (which will probably last the longest). But e-mail has replaced snail mail, who keeps diaries anymore? The closest analog might be one's FB postings. But in 50, 100, 200 years what if historians are fortunate enough to find some figure's "papers" backed up on CDs or a thumb drive, would they recognise it?
I ride a while back that John Updike donated his papers to some university -- on 5.25 floppies. Fortunately they had machines (and people) old enough to transcribe them.

[quote="Steel_Pinwheel, post:16, topic:222298"]
I notice that older people do a lot of printing. Some of that is because they can read paper more easily than their monitors. A big part of it is because this is the easier way for them to save and share things. But, that will change. The less computer savvy will die out and computers themselves will continue to grow easier to use.

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I'm an older person, and I avoid printing like the plague. I publish a monthly newsletter for a group and distribute it mostly by email as a pdf file. But there always a few holdout who insist on a hard copy through the USPS.

And the statement about older people may be generally true. I learned that a number of the people who receive the email pdf file print it out! I can't figure this, since the pdf file looks better and can be enlarged at will.

Still, I do like the newspaper. I tire of reading it online, and would rather sit in an easy chair with a cup of coffee and a newspaper than at the desk in front of the PC. I suppose I'll have to get an e-reader.

One thing the Internet has done is to make all information equally suspect.

[quote="Steel_Pinwheel, post:9, topic:222298"]
I meant printers used for producing printed paper. Yes, 3D printers, and other Santa Clause machines, have a big future in manufacturing.

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Not if the upgrade curve continues to make the computer documents of ten or 15 years ago unable to be read.

For example, everything you did in WordPerfect in the 1980s and 90s cannot be read by any computer made in the last five years - if you didn't print it out at the time that the last version of WordPerfect came out, then whatever documents you created are now gone and lost forever - so, for that reason (plus, the fact that computers still crash and take all their data down with them, from time to time) there will still be a role for printing important documents such as contracts, mortgages, birth certificates, etc. :)

[quote="jmcrae, post:25, topic:222298"]
Not if the upgrade curve continues to make the computer documents of ten or 15 years ago unable to be read.

For example, everything you did in WordPerfect in the 1980s and 90s cannot be read by any computer made in the last five years - if you didn't print it out at the time that the last version of WordPerfect came out, then whatever documents you created are now gone and lost forever - so, for that reason (plus, the fact that computers still crash and take all their data down with them, from time to time) there will still be a role for printing important documents such as contracts, mortgages, birth certificates, etc. :)

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A good point. I hate that stuff I have saved previously has to be continuously re-saved in different formats if I want to keep it. Archeologists of the future may find no traces of our civilization except as unreadable drives and unreadable file formats.

[quote="JimG, post:24, topic:222298"]
I'm an older person, and I avoid printing like the plague.

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I know a number of older people who print everything. And, this seems to be pretty much only older people. I think it just has to do with their discomfort with the computer. But, in 10 years I don't think anyone will be doing much printing because computers will get so easy.

Still, I do like the newspaper. I tire of reading it online, and would rather sit in an easy chair with a cup of coffee and a newspaper than at the desk in front of the PC. I suppose I'll have to get an e-reader.

In ten years when you can pull an e-reader out of your pocket, expand it to a comfortable reading size, and easily access your whole library without any need to copy anything to your e-reader, you'll forget about newspapers. Since you probably need reading glasses, you'll be able to pick yourself up a pair that displays your information virtually in the lens, anyway you want it to appear.

One thing the Internet has done is to make all information equally suspect.

It's easy to research anything, so I don't see why everything is so suspect. Maybe people are too busy with their lives to put in the effort. Maybe people just enjoy their biases.

[quote="jmcrae, post:25, topic:222298"]
For example, everything you did in WordPerfect in the 1980s and 90s cannot be read by any computer made in the last five years - if you didn't print it out at the time that the last version of WordPerfect came out, then whatever documents you created are now gone and lost forever - so, for that reason (plus, the fact that computers still crash and take all their data down with them, from time to time) there will still be a role for printing important documents such as contracts, mortgages, birth certificates, etc. :)

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I guess the next decade will take you by surprise. They'll have filters for old WordPerfect documents (they have them now). Your data will be stored in the "cloud" do you won't have to worry about data loss (I still want a local backup). Electronically signed documents work as well as the real thing, and there are already places beginning to use them. You sign them just like you sign at the grocery store for your credit card.

[quote="JimG, post:26, topic:222298"]
A good point. I hate that stuff I have saved previously has to be continuously re-saved in different formats if I want to keep it. Archeologists of the future may find no traces of our civilization except as unreadable drives and unreadable file formats.

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Exactly. I did a whole lot of really cool creative work from 1995-97, and there is not one thing that can be read on any computer of today.

By contrast, I still have all of the paintings that I made during that time period (that is, any that haven't been sold, yet).

[quote="Steel_Pinwheel, post:27, topic:222298"]
I know a number of older people who print everything. And, this seems to be pretty much only older people. I think it just has to do with their discomfort with the computer. But, in 10 years I don't think anyone will be doing much printing because computers will get so easy.

In ten years when you can pull an e-reader out of your pocket, expand it to a comfortable reading size, and easily access your whole library without any need to copy anything to your e-reader, you'll forget about newspapers. Since you probably need reading glasses, you'll be able to pick yourself up a pair that displays your information virtually in the lens, anyway you want it to appear.

It's easy to research anything, so I don't see why everything is so suspect. Maybe people are too busy with their lives to put in the effort. Maybe people just enjoy their biases.

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For most things that we deal with, at least for me, printing is just a waste of paper and ink. But there are always archival documents needed for some things.

I'd rather not have reading glasses that display the newspaper, but some kind of optical implant that gives a virtual heads up display appearing to be at reading distance would be nice. (For that matter, I'd really like a heads up display for my car--such as fighter pilots get--It would show me the lanes and obstacles. My aging eyes would appreciate it!)

I just bought an e-reader a few days ago, then spent several hours trying to learn the controls and menus. The learning curve was not so great for the newspaper.

And I'm continuously surprised that computers really aren't easier to use. If my car required as much stroking and updating as my computer, I'd ride a bike.

As for the cloud, isn't that just a name for somebody else's server? You trust your info to the cloud, probably on Google's servers somewhere, and hope that they don't mess with it, sell it to advertisers or the media, or hand it over to the government.

And remember, all those baby boomers are aging, and they are likely to turn out to be just as crotchety and stuck in their ways as the prior generation.

[quote="JimG, post:30, topic:222298"]
If my car required as much stroking and updating as my computer, I'd ride a bike.

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And, yet you still use the computer. :D

In the past, the big thing was more and more computing power. Now that we're pretty much have ample computing power, the big thing will be to make them easier to use. Computers are already far easier than they use to be. I think in 10 years, for the most part, you won't need to know anything about computers to use or maintain them.

As for the cloud, isn't that just a name for somebody else's server?

I believe encryption is standard, so that no one else can use your data. These companies also have their reputations to protect, which means going to great lengths to protect your data.

And remember, all those baby boomers are aging, and they are likely to turn out to be just as crotchety and stuck in their ways as the prior generation.

All old people are pretty much stuck in their ways because of how hard it is to learn at an advanced age. Newspapers are what they know and newspapers are dead-easy to use. When I'm old, it will be computers I know and computers will be dead-easy to use.

I still find it much easier to read on paper than off any screen. Print is a much more convenient method. (Yes, the internet is cheaper to produce, no doubt, but as a consumer I don't really care; it's the producers of news that are pushing the internet product.)

I find I retain the information from printed materials MUCH, MUCH better than the stuff I read on my computer.

So it goes! :)

[quote="Steel_Pinwheel, post:31, topic:222298"]

All old people are pretty much stuck in their ways because of how hard it is to learn at an advanced age. Newspapers are what they know and newspapers are dead-easy to use. When I'm old, it will be computers I know and computers will be dead-easy to use.

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But you won't be able to save any of the interesting articles, or put them in a scrapbook for future generations. There will still be that cut-off that you can't read anything that's more than 15 years old. I've got photos that are more than 100 years old in my photo albums, passed down from generation to generation. All of that family continuity will become lost.

[quote="jmcrae, post:33, topic:222298"]
But you won't be able to save any of the interesting articles, or put them in a scrapbook for future generations. There will still be that cut-off that you can't read anything that's more than 15 years old. I've got photos that are more than 100 years old in my photo albums, passed down from generation to generation. All of that family continuity will become lost.

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This reminds of the time I once checked out Mark Twain's "The Mysterious Stranger" from my university library. It was a remarkable book, hardbound, sturdily constructed, illustrated, with a good readable typeface. Reading it was a different experience than reading the same thing in paperback or on an e-reader. (The story, incidentally, amounts to Twain's anti-theist complaint.) It was only after finishing the story and looking more closely at the book that I realized that it was an original edition. Probably they no longer have it in the general stacks.

I also recall the general stacks open only to graduate students at another university, where one might find entire racks of shelves devoted only to, say, Shakespeare studies. The fact is, not everything ever published is available online, regardless of what Google may desire, and real research involves going into the stacks and finding original sources. If all research is done only online, then research is impoverished.

I once had a high school teacher who scoffed at student research which was limited to the school library. For her, a trip to the downtown library was required, and even that was minimal. She really wanted us to go to the private library of science and technology located between two universities, (she was a science teacher) which did not lend books, but allowed visitors to spend as much time as they wanted doing research. What would she have thought of Googled research? Not much, I'm afraid.

My niece who is a high school teacher, spends a good deal of time checking students papers against Google and finds that often huge parts of them are simply lifted verbatim from Internet sources without attribution. She gives those papers an F.

[quote="JimG, post:34, topic:222298"]
I once had a high school teacher who scoffed at student research which was limited to the school library. For her, a trip to the downtown library was required, and even that was minimal. She really wanted us to go to the private library of science and technology located between two universities, (she was a science teacher) which did not lend books, but allowed visitors to spend as much time as they wanted doing research. What would she have thought of Googled research? Not much, I'm afraid.

[/quote]

I had a teacher like that, too, in high school - they're the ones you hate at the time, and come to appreciate later on. :)

My niece who is a high school teacher, spends a good deal of time checking students papers against Google and finds that often huge parts of them are simply lifted verbatim from Internet sources without attribution. She gives those papers an F.

As well she should - more teachers need to become computer-literate, so that kids don't think they can get away with this stuff.

The internet, via internet forums, is teaching people young and old to be rude. I will never archive anything on the internet. My original print sources will remain original sources. The internet helps to degrade competent research by mixing it, at times, with nonsense.

Peace,
Ed

[quote="edwest2, post:36, topic:222298"]
The internet, via internet forums, is teaching people young and old to be rude. I will never archive anything on the internet. My original print sources will remain original sources. The internet helps to degrade competent research by mixing it, at times, with nonsense.

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I see that. The internet makes speech too easy. In print publications, you carefully proofread and research what you write for fear that the publisher will reject it. Now, you just type anything that comes off the top of your head. Maybe that's just me. :D

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