What was Satan's sin?


#1

What was Satan's sin that justified the creation of hell?
I know that the church says pride. But is their a passage in scripture where it specifically says what his crime was? I had a Mormon tell me that it was because Satan wanted to plant the trees on earth for his glory rather then God's glory.
How do we know that Satan was really that bad a guy to begin with? If God is all knowing and powerful seems kind of like kind double standard to me.


#2

“non serviam” were Satan’s words according to Apostolic Tradition (not in scripture but as valid to Catholics as scripture). The meaning is “I will not serve” a God who will sacrifice His only begotten Son for an inferior race such as mankind.


#3

Here is a good sermon that tell the entire story.


#4

Personally, I think it came down to the sin of pride…however, I think you can pretty much track any sin back to pride in some form or fashion.


#5

It's always helpful for me to think of hell as a broken realtionship rather than a physical place.

Our relationship with our children is a good analogy.
Assume you as a father know what is best and are all- good to your children.
By definition, if your son does not fully accept that relationship, he is in a world that is not best for him, and is not all-good. He has chosen to live in hell. He might live in the Bahamas or the North Pole, results are the same.

Satan in some way chose not to accept that God is everything he needs.


#6

Do all Catholics believe that Satan was/is a real 'being'?


#7

[quote="Walcot, post:6, topic:308272"]
Do all Catholics believe that Satan was/is a real 'being'?

[/quote]

Yup. We believe that he was an angel, and not just any angel, THE Angel, top dog, etc. He made a choice to reject his "servitude" to God, and lead a rebellion against God with other angels who felt similarly.

Contrary to typical depictions, this was not a battle involving weapons / death, it was an intellectual battle; where logical discourse would sway an angel one way or the other.

At the end of it, God appointed Michael the Archangel to basically eject all those who sided with Satan out of Heaven.

Sin then, he's been working to pull God's creation (us) away from God. He is pure unadultrated malice incarnate. He hates God and hates us as much as God loves us; enough to send his son down to die a horrific, excruciating death in order to redeem us so we could be close to him and join him at our deaths. That's a lot of love, now imagine that much hate...

(This is my understanding, to the other Catholics, if I've missed / misrepresented something, let me know.)


#8

[quote="Walcot, post:6, topic:308272"]
Do all Catholics believe that Satan was/is a real 'being'?

[/quote]

Not sure I completely follow your question. I guess the simple answer would probably be that no, not all Catholics believe Satan is a real thing. However, that doesn't mean they are right:) . furthermore, I think they are bound to believe it. So whether they do or not is really a moot point. What is actually important is what the Church teaches regarding the subject. I would suggest the following article for an explanation on the Church's teaching on the subject: newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm


#9

His sin was pride, ultimately. Specifically the prideful refusal to love and serve God.

Some non-official stories suggest that the fact that God would become man was revealed to the angels at the beginning of their existence, and that it was a rejection of this, the refusal to worship God if he was also a man, that motivated the rebellion Satan and the other demons.


#10

[quote="Walcot, post:6, topic:308272"]
Do all Catholics believe that Satan was/is a real 'being'?

[/quote]

If they believe in the whole of Catholicism, then yes. Satan is a non-physical personal being, a "pure spirit" as we say, who has chosen to enter a state of perpetual rebellion against God.


#11

[quote="ProdglArchitect, post:7, topic:308272"]
Yup. We believe that he was an angel, and not just any angel, THE Angel, top dog, etc. He made a choice to reject his "servitude" to God, and lead a rebellion against God with other angels who felt similarly.

Contrary to typical depictions, this was not a battle involving weapons / death, it was an intellectual battle; where logical discourse would sway an angel one way or the other.

At the end of it, God appointed Michael the Archangel to basically eject all those who sided with Satan out of Heaven.

Sin then, he's been working to pull God's creation (us) away from God. He is pure unadultrated malice incarnate. He hates God and hates us as much as God loves us; enough to send his son down to die a horrific, excruciating death in order to redeem us so we could be close to him and join him at our deaths. That's a lot of love, now imagine that much hate...

(This is my understanding, to the other Catholics, if I've missed / misrepresented something, let me know.)

[/quote]

I think you injected a little more mythology into your account than is formally taught by the Church, and your interpretation of him as malice incarnate would have to be taken in a figurative or analogical sort of sense not literally. Also we have to be careful about how we compare Satan to God. We don't want to draw too much of a duelistic parallel. Satan surely hates us, but he doesn't have the power to hate as much as God loves us.

Still, your basic idea is right I think.


#12

[quote="giuseppeTO, post:2, topic:308272"]
"non serviam" were Satan's words according to Apostolic Tradition (not in scripture but as valid to Catholics as scripture). The meaning is "I will not serve" a God who will sacrifice His only begotten Son for an inferior race such as mankind.

[/quote]

I was taught that the angels were required to serve man and Satan refused to do that. He was not to be beneath man. He felt he was above a human. This would lead to Satan believing he was above Christ if you think about it. I think his protest was he would not serve man. His pride and disobedience caused him to be driven out of heaven.


#13

[quote="giuseppeTO, post:2, topic:308272"]
"non serviam" were Satan's words according to Apostolic Tradition (not in scripture but as valid to Catholics as scripture). The meaning is "I will not serve" a God who will sacrifice His only begotten Son for an inferior race such as mankind.

[/quote]

I think that this is right.

And not only would the fallen angels not serve a God who would sacrifice his son for men, but they would not serve a God who would become a man.

**Instead, someone has testified somewhere:
What is man that you are mindful of him,
or the son of man that you care for him?
You made him for a little while lower than the angels
*
(Hebrews 2:6-7)*

They would not worship a God who would humble himself to become a man.

-Tim-


#14

Dear all,

With the limited knowledge, i try to explain. Lucifer the angel refused to co operate with God. When asked to go and serve human creatures, his pride took hold of him. He disobeyed . He could not cooperate with the mysterious plan of his Creator.
It was called pride.

Whereas Gabriel cooperated fully well. Notice, how he comes down to earth and prostrated the human being, Mary during the Vistiation. It was sheer obedience to allow the God's plan to take shape.
Simple as that. Develop other themes on this.

Tiny


#15

For biblical support of the sin of Satan, while not overt, it is hinted at in Gn 3

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,

but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

This last clue, is that he tempted man as he was tempted. By pride.

Similarly in Mt 4

“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

again here we see Satan trying to temp someone via his own failing, his own desires.


#16

[quote="Walcot, post:6, topic:308272"]
Do all Catholics believe that Satan was/is a real 'being'?

[/quote]

It is a basic tenant of the faith. And an article in our Creed.

The definition "all Catholics" is an bit broad. Some people call themselves Catholic and don't even believe in God


#17

[quote="Aelred_Minor, post:11, topic:308272"]
I think you injected a little more mythology into your account than is formally taught by the Church, and your interpretation of him as malice incarnate would have to be taken in a figurative or analogical sort of sense not literally. Also we have to be careful about how we compare Satan to God. We don't want to draw too much of a duelistic parallel. Satan surely hates us, but he doesn't have the power to hate as much as God loves us.

Still, your basic idea is right I think.

[/quote]

Thank you for the correction, I've never read too deeply into Satan, so this was sort of what I've pieced together. I'll have a look at the link that was posted. ^^


#18

[quote="Boulder257, post:8, topic:308272"]
Not sure I completely follow your question. I guess the simple answer would probably be that no, not all Catholics believe Satan is a real thing. However, that doesn't mean they are right:) . furthermore, I think they are bound to believe it. So whether they do or not is really a moot point. What is actually important is what the Church teaches regarding the subject. I would suggest the following article for an explanation on the Church's teaching on the subject: newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm

[/quote]

I'll have a look at the link when I have more time so it might answer my question - How on earth do you 'know' all these details? I don't understand.


#19

=Jessup;10128701]What was Satan's sin that justified the creation of hell?
I know that the church says pride. But is their a passage in scripture where it specifically says what his crime was? I had a Mormon tell me that it was because Satan wanted to plant the trees on earth for his glory rather then God's glory.
How do we know that Satan was really that bad a guy to begin with? If God is all knowing and powerful seems kind of like kind double standard to me.

Wanting God's job:(

He thought that he knew more and knew better than God himself.:blush:


#20

This is what Fr. Chad Rippberger said:

Satan's sin is his hatred of the Blessed Virgin Mary. He was given a glimpse of Her. And, this is why it is fitting that She crush the serpents head.


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